Podcast Episode 42

with our guest Erwan Le Corre

Erwan Le Corre: The Practice of Natural Movement

Bryan: 00:00:53 Hello my friends Erwan Le Corre is the acknowledged founder and leader of the concept of Natural Movement. He’s been called one of the fittest men in the world and a fitness visionary by Men’s Health magazine. Erwan was born in France. He grew up with a black and white TV, no remote, no video games, no personal computers and no internet. He spent his youth in the woods living in the suburbs of Paris, maybe 30 miles away. His father encouraged him to run, crawl, climb, jump. He was introduced to karate at 15 years old. Which taught him discipline, method, and commitment. By the time Erwan was 19 he’d trained for seven years and natural and urban settings, climbing bridges, balancing on high places, jumping on roofs, walking on all fours in the underground, swimming in cold water and practicing all manner of breath training and fighting techniques. At 27 he started a period of sailing, olympic weight lifting, rock climbing, long distance triathlon, trail running, and Jujitsu. At 33 he started researching European history of physical education, discovering forgotten training methods. He tells an incredible story of coming across someone who seemed to be dead walking alone one night in China, taking him home and caring for him. Oh, I do want to say this, that Erwan came to the United States originally granted an O1 visa. It’s given only to those who demonstrate extraordinary ability in their field, whether it be arts, sports, business, education, or the sciences. I think Erwin is a pretty remarkable guy. I think if you not familiar with his work and you enjoy movement, you’ll enjoy this interview. Erwan, welcome to this School For Good Living.

Erwan: 00:02:31 Thank you, Bryan.

Bryan: 00:02:32 Yeah, I’m so glad to have you here. Erwan, will you tell me please? What’s life about?

Erwan: 00:02:39 Life is to me the practice of energy at every level. So love ,breathing, the energy we owe. Everybody knows, you know, eating food of course, and then breathing. Well, if you, if you pay attention, then it’s, it’s really what it is about. To understand that all his energy, but beyond the conceptual understanding, it’s really to practice that energy to make yourself thrive. That’s the idea to me.

Bryan: 00:03:16 Yeah. When you meet someone new or if somebody asks you who you are and what you do. What do you, how do you often answer that question or what do you like to say?

Erwan: 00:03:28 I like just to say that I’m a, I’m a teacher. Cause usually when people ask you what you do, you know who you are. Well people rarely ask you who you are. We ask you what is it that you do? So I say I’m a, I’m a teacher, I’m a, I’m an entrepreneur, I own a company. What is it about? While it’s about fitness, but it’s the natural movement type of fitness. Okay, what is this about? Opens plenty of doors that I can say that also I’m an author, but uh, who, who I am, I’m a family man. I’m a father, I’m a husband. That’s really what matters to me and what I do matters as well. But it’s, it’s, it’s not what’s priority. Definitely not.

Bryan: 00:04:16 Yeah. You know, I mentioned this when I invited you on this show that I heard you on Mark Divine’s podcast on the Unbeatable Mind. And I really loved the conversation that you had. I love hearing, you know, an east, east coast, us born, you know, former Navy Commander talking with a Frenchman who has also had his share of experiences around the world. And in some ways having a very, very different background, but in some ways some things very much in common, right? And the physicality and the, just the different approach to being strong, being healthy, being mentally tough. And I really love this concept that you’ve, that you’ve popularized, um, about natural movement. Will you say a little about what that is and why is it something that our world is really missing today or somebody people were looking for?

Erwan: 00:05:09 It’s a real challenge that you are asking me because you asking me to tell a little about it when I just published a book that’s 480 pages about it. And my publisher asked me to cut 200 pages. On top of the fact that I had already dumbed it down to, you know, like the really the absolute essential that were really essential in my mind. So, um, yeah, natural movement is let’s think about, uh, let’s, let’s use a simple metaphor. Uh, how does any wild animal move? What, what do they need to do to become and stay fit? Ask yourself about a wild tiger, an eagle, a dolphin, all these completely different animal species. They from birth to death their physical behavior has to do with not just surviving but thriving in the wild. And for that they are using movement that are species specific. And my question is why on earth should it be any different for us humans? Because when we look at kids and the way they move without any pre, preconception, we’ve had an instruction, they crawl and then they learn to stand when they will run and hike and walk and step up and down and crawl more and climb and balance and jump and lift and carry things and throw and catch things. They all do all of these things instinctually because there are evolutionary movement skills. It’s overall the whole scope of those what I call natural movement abilities represent our original and universal movement behavior, physical behavior. That’s our physical nature to do that. The same way eagles fly and dolphins dive and jump off the surface of the ocean and wild tigers sprint and climb and jump off and pounce and do all these movements. Okay. So we can become very skilled, very physically capable, very strong, very agile by understanding that we too have those skills. It was natural movement skills that are specific to human beings and practicing that. That’s what I, that’s what I teach. Uh, but that’s also the reason why I have developed a method called MoveNat that have been teaching for about 12 years now.

Bryan: 00:07:46 Now this book is beautiful. I understand you just published it in January and it’s clear this is a labor of love. I understand you’ve been, you know, there’s really been more than a decade. I mean, it’s a life’s learning experience that you’ve, you’ve put in, in these pages and I love, it’s very visual. Has a nice for me, a nice combination of text and a, and pictures and instruction to, right. I love one of the things that you talk about is about this, um, about zoo humans. About in a way, it’s like we’ve confined ourselves, we’ve caged ourselves and uh, you know, nobody, nobody likes to be trapped. Nobody likes to be stuck. And yet we’ve done this to ourselves. And the absurdity, I think reading, like listening to you, reading some of what you’ve written, hearing about the kind of absurdity of going to a gym because our lives don’t already provide enough variation and physical challenge. And then even when we were in the gym, we’re using these machines that they’re not natural, but we’re isolating, you know, different things that if it was a survival situation or really just an enjoyment thing, it’s not necessarily conducive to like what you were saying about thriving, about being fully alive, about enjoying life. So I think this book is definitely one whose time has come, but if you were to say like, who did you write it for and what did you hope it would do for them? How do you think about that

Erwan: 00:09:12 For everyone really, for everyone. Um, everyone in the modern world, in everyone in when I said the modern world is whoever is living by the modern standards of you know, growing up, going to school being. already come find in classroom settings hours a day and then you find it a desk job one day and you keep doing that for the rest of your life. You keep living in cities and everything is boxed in. All your environments are artificial, the air is artificial, the light is artificial, the surfaces artificial, the food is artificial and obviously that means that a lot of our behaviors become not all of them and not fully, but a lot of our behaviors become artificial as well. And that for that we all pay price and that is something that I’ve realized a long time ago and as, as, as long as I can remember when I was going on hikes with my parents and my family and I was realizing already that they didn’t have the drive to move that I had as a little kid. And I was wondering why already I was wondering how come they didn’t have the joy of movement? Why is it that they didn’t want to climb those walls and jump off the walls and have that freedom? They seem to be just trapped in their head talking about stuff. And, uh, that, that exuberance that I had for movement, um, I never wanted it to be tamed. And it really was a suffering for me to stay, to just stay, you know, still in, in classrooms even though actually I forced myself because I was actually a good boy. I was not a rebel that way. Uh, but at the same time I just, I was dying inside and really it was horrible. And, um, when it came to studying and thinking of what would be my job one day, I could not force my head to, to accept, to simply accept that I would live the same way. I had to find something else. So you asked me, who did I write this book for? I wrote this book for whoever has experienced the same and gotten those, that’s millions and millions of people. Whoever has questioned that idea of normalcy and a big part of that normalcy that is forced upon us since we’re little kids, has to do with physical eyes. And this has to do with just being still physically, not, don’t do this, don’t do that, don’t climb that. You’re gonna hurt yourself. You’re going to get dirty, you’re going to dirty the wall to get, you’re going to break something and a break your leg. And it’s constant, constant repression. It’s a behavioral repression and it makes us sad. It makes us depressed. That’s the start of depression. Depression is the number one problem. And in of our modern days and modern lifestyle, depression, people are depressed. A huge part of that has to do with a lack of movement. And even the, you were talking about, you know, modern jeans and people going to more indoors, sitting on machines, having their exercise movements completely shaped by the machines is absolutely artificial. There’s no freedom to it. It’s still work. It’s still boring. And yeah, there’s no freedom to this. So it’s hard to think of exercise that way as being anti-depressor. Since it revolts of around the exact same principles, the exact same mindset, the exact same behavior that caused our problem in the first place. Let people move. So about 20% of that book is about the philosophy where at every pack that that manifesto with very powerful insights to make people realize, look, it was never supposed to be that way in the beginning and in the first place and it’s not a fatality and it can be changed and this is, this is what should be instead and what should be instead. It’s not a creation of my mind. What should have been instead is an observation of what used to be. And that still is in many places where people live more naturally, but it’s also a mindset and behavior that’s still is alive in every young child. Yeah. And that adults are busy trying to just kill off every day. Just try to minimize and shrink every day. That’s, I’ve always stand against that. I always will. And that whole book is about that basically. Well, the whole manifesto, the book, it is a very philosophy called rants against that and then the rest, and that’s 80% of the book is a practical how to, on how to break through.

Bryan: 00:14:26 Yeah, no, I, I really love that. And, um, I can tell that this is not just, you know, this is not just a product for you, right. This is, and it’s not even maybe a lifestyle. I mean, it’s a mission. How do you, how do you think of the work you’re doing?

Erwan: 00:14:48 Highly. The way I think of the work I’m doing. Yeah highly um, uh, I’d like to say I don’t, I actually don’t take myself seriously. I know it sounds super serious. My wife would tell you, uh, I’m such a kook. You know, I’m a funny guy. Uh, but when, when it comes to talk about what I do, I take it very seriously. Um, because I can see it just, I just look everywhere around me right now. I mean an office and I am sitting, it’s an office, works in an office environment, but trust me, I agree. I mentally agree and I’m actually, uh, enjoy to participate in that conversation with you, Brian Right now. But only because it’s 90 minutes then I have to get out. It’s not, it’s not because, I mean actually having a convo with you could, I know could last much longer, but me sitting here that environment could not, and I’ve, I’ve designed a lot of things in my life to avoid that fate.

Bryan: 00:15:51 Yeah. Well, and speaking of fate, you know, this is one thing when you and I connected by email, we talked a little bit back and forth about our fathers and about the fates that our father, that, it sounds so passive to say the fates that befell our fathers. Because I know for my dad it was a choice, right? Every choice you make is a choice not to do or be every other way. And, and one of the reasons I’m, I feel called to do the work I’m doing of helping people live the best version of themselves is because I saw my dad, even though he achieved phenomenal success as an entrepreneur and he paid a very high price physically for many years, emotionally, spiritually, even. But when I saw my father in the hospital after having had surgery for his legs to be amputated due to complications from diabetes, I don’t think I knew it in that moment. But looking back, that was when I decided two things. One, that would never be me. And two, I would do what I could to help encourage and inspire and motivate others to avoid a similar fate. But it sounds like you and I have a little bit of commonality in that way. Um, would you be willing to share a bit about just what your relationship with your dad was like and how that might’ve shaped the work that you’re doing now or who you are today?

Erwan: 00:17:06 Sure. Um, okay, it wasn’t good. It wasn’t good. When I was a little kid um, he, uh, the good thing is that he, he took me often into the woods where the house, where we lived, it was in the, on the countryside. And it had this, these great forest, just, just a few feet away almost with those boulders.

Bryan: 00:17:35 In what area? Will you share with me where, where was this?

Erwan: 00:17:39 That was the suburbs of Paris. Okay. It was about, I dunno, 30 miles away from Paris. So, and uh, so there was a fantastic playground, and it wasn’t just, there is my parents. We would go on a hike all the time whenever possible, I would go on a hike with them and that’s where my dad would encourage me to jump into his arms from the height and to climb up and you know, scale up though those boulders and do all these movements that I didn’t feel ready for. But he has that kind of instinct of pushing me to do these things, to go y’all my fears.

Bryan: 00:18:19 In fact, in the, in the book you share an experience about a hill, right. Will you talk about that.

Erwan: 00:18:25 So it’s, I was so young that I did not, I did not remember that. He told me once in this rare moments when we could have a little conversation about the past and he said, I remember that time where you were so young, you can’t even remember. And, um, it had rained and that was a muddy hill and, uh, I climb on top and I left you at the bottom, and then I let you climb it alone. And that it’s, and I was sliding and sliding and I was starting to be, you know, emotionally upset and then to ask for help and, uh, and he wouldn’t help me. And he would say, no, you can do it. You’ve gotta to do it, climb, you get to do it. And then finally, our resolve to just, just do my very best to do it. And I did.

Bryan: 00:19:23 And you were like three, three, or four years old, is that right?

Erwan: 00:19:26 Yeah truly it’s funny because when he, when he told me about that story, I did not remember it, but then it seemed that I still had some memory of it actually. I believe I’d have my own memory of it. It’s a little, you know, a little blurry, but at the same time, um, he said he regretted it. Wow. And He, well, that if he felt bad because I was just really a little boy and it was maybe a little too early to teach those lessons. I think that those lessons are very, very high value actually. When you’re a little, little boy, little girl doesn’t matter. It’s a very, very high value, kind of lesson. It’s you’re on your own and if you really fight, if you really pay attention, you can find a way to overcome that obstacle. And if you understand that lesson, then it will apply to anything in your life retrospectively. I totally understand. What, what was his, his, his approach back then? What was his point? But he felt bad probably because I was really young. Um, so really I think that, um, I would not actually have anything against him for that, that event for other things, certainly, but not about that. I think every time you encouraged me to be more brave and, uh, he wasn’t just a, he wasn’t just yelling at me or demanding that I do something impossible or dangerous. He did that with enough, um, realistic expectation that I was able to do it and to overcome a certain level of difficulty. So it was a kind of intuitive education, very important for life because that kind of mindset always helped me in life to just take a little more risk, to be a little braver, uh, to have the confidence that I could overcome any obstacle. So great life lesson.

Bryan: 00:21:26 Yeah. When, when you were a little older, it sounds like there were some other ways that, cause I see this with pretty much everyone, right? In fact, Tony Robbins says every life is either an example or a warning. And I think, right, most lives are probably both if you look at it that way. And so, you know, I wonder with your father, if there’s ways that you emulate, you know, things, qualities that he had that you aspired to follow and others that maybe you resolve to never be that way and how that might’ve shaped, you know, the person that you’ve become.

Erwan: 00:22:02 For the most part I can’t remember an example, unfortunately. Um, but, uh, if I just look at the positives, um, yeah, for instance, he wasn’t a social person and uh, my social skills I had to develop later on much later on because I was, I grew up to be a very, very shy teenager. And then when I become, became a young adult that I force myself to practice, that ability to just be comfortable with myself and with people or in and around people. They took me some time. Um, so you see there’s two, you say Tony Robbins says either an example or warning. It’s, yeah, either example, a counterexample. So the example of a counterexample was he wasn’t not being social, so social person because of choice, but probably probably because of his own inability.

Bryan: 00:23:06 That’s a wise and I think that’s a very generous insight beyond just judging him for being a certain way, by the way.

Erwan: 00:23:13 Yeah, I believe so. So whereas I acquired the skills to be, to be able when I choose so to be social with people, yeah. Um, which, which has a lot to do. Number one is with just self confidence, but a lot of people who have no self confidence, also very social people and very skilled with social events. So self confidence is not necessarily, it’s not mandatory to be social anymore, to be a, you know, like a person who just like to hang out with people and be well and, and uh, but, but at the same time in my life, I’m not a person who, who’s trying to socialize and create networks and this and that. I’m very well on my own. I’m very well with just my, my best friend who’s my wife and my children and a few friends that I see sometimes. I don’t, I don’t need to always be surrounded by people.

Bryan: 00:24:17 Yeah. But, but you’re doing that anyway though, right? I mean like I loved, I saw MoveNat is doing the training in my hometown here of Salt Lake. And I was like, that is amazing. It’s, it seems like it’s everywhere lately. So even though you maybe haven’t aspired to do that consciously, it’s happened. Which is pretty remarkable don’t you think?

Erwan: 00:24:34 Well, I want it to create a community and it’s happening. So that’s a good thing. Yeah. Awesome.

Bryan: 00:24:41 Well, and, and on the topic, while we’re on the topic of family, I just, I want to ask about this because I loved when I learned that you’re, that you’re in New Mexico. I get to visit New Mexico once or twice a year and I love it really is the land of enchantment, right. And, and in the back of your book where you mentioned that you are a father, that your husband, and I just want to take a moment just to ask because your kid’s names are a little unique for, um, how many people name Feather, Eagle and Sky. Tell me a little bit about what inspires you to name your kids these names.

Erwan: 00:25:13 My wife is a, she’s a, enrolled, an officially enrolled member of the Cherokee nation, so she’s, she’s native. And, uh, so it makes sense that our children would have unusual but powerful names. Um, so when, uh, yeah, so that just makes sense. Our, all our three children are also enrolled members of the Cherokee nation. So, um, interestingly when we, um, whenever we’ve had some, some physical, some health, you know, checkups to do for them, for her when she was pregnant, then we will go to the local Indian hospital, native Indian hospital and a, and we show up and clearly we’re don’t have dark hair and, uh, you know, relatedly dark, we kind of have fair complexions. My wife has blue eyes, she’s 70% native. And so, but so people look at us and be like, what are these European people are doing here? Uh, but yeah, that’s the way it is. Yeah. My wife is a, she’s, she’s a very amazing person, very wise. Um, very healthy, very strong, very creative, very loving. Um, she’s really a goddess in every way, shape and form. And uh, yeah, she’s my best teacher. So the reason why our children are called that ways because she chose, she chose those names. And I agree they’re beautiful names.

Bryan: 00:27:02 No, they are, they are beautiful and I know names they matter so much. They have such an impact on how other people treat us, how we think of ourselves. I think ultimately what we become, and a, I loved learning that your name means dragon, right in, uh, is it in a celt language?

Erwan: 00:27:23 In um, in uh, Britain language, which is a Celtic language. It’s one of the several Celtic nations, you know, you’ve got the Scotts and of course the Irish and the um, the Cornish, the Gallic, the, the, I mean the Welsh anyways, and then you have the Britons. So in, in that language and [inaudible] is a dragon. And so there is a strong assumption that the origin of the name is, is that word dragon. Because the explanation from almost all my life is that he came from another name that has nothing to do with that. And I was the Britain translation, but that didn’t make any sense. And the recently came that new translation, that new explanation for that first name. And I thought, okay, that’s really cool. That explains a lot.

Bryan: 00:28:19 Yeah. What did the, what was the translation or the other name?

Erwan: 00:28:23 Oh, it had to do with, uh, another name called Eve, which has to do with I think ivy the, the, the tree. Which is one of the sacred trees for, uh, for the Celts. And um, yes, so there’s a saint called Saint Eve and uh, but Eve and Erwan are not at all the same. And the old, the old, uh, pronunciation, I don’t even know if anybody’s interested in this, but the old pronunciation of the, of the name because in English or in the US people ask me, what’s your name? I said Erwan because that’s easy for people to pronounce. The French pronunciation is Erwan but the original Britain pronunciation would be a Erwan and Erwan pronounces, you know, sounds pretty much like [inaudible], which is the dragon. That’s the story behind the first name.

Erwan: 00:29:23 No, I, I think that’s really cool. And I do think people will be interested if you know for no other reason when they think about the power of a name, right? I actually think many people don’t think about that deeply where their name is an aspect of their life. That’s like the rest of their life that they’ve been handed and they’ve stepped into. And then it becomes in some ways in limitation and this idea that we can choose an identity for ourselves. And I love that you know, these two interpretations of this name could be from this or from this and you chose one that sounds like it’s more empowering from you. And so I can see that’s in some ways a different life. So I want to, I want to switch gears and I want to ask you about a couple things. Um, one is this story about when you were alone in China and you came across a man who seemed to be dead. As this sounded to me a little bit like the story of the Buddha. And I’m wondering if you’ll kind of give us the background on what happened there and what, how did that have an impact on you?

Erwan: 00:30:27 Well, funny that I shared this story with you, which have shared, I’ve shared with I don’t know if my wife for sure, but I don’t even know if I’ve shared it with anybody else. Um, yeah, that’s a part of my past life. I worked in China and um, I spent a total of two years there actually. And uh, well at the beginning of that, that, uh, that part of my life there, there was a factory where I was working there was in the, the Shango hairy area. How old were you at this time? I was in my, uh, mid, mid twenties. Yeah. And, um, I think I was 20, 25, 26. One night I decided, I decided to go on a stroll actually was, yeah, very late. I was working on a manufacturing process that actually had created and uh, that led me to, from France to China to finding a partner where it could. And so, so I could make it make, make this manufacturing process a reality, which took me to that factory where I would spend hours on my own, often working late at night and working on experimentation on the bay, basically baking PVC in silicone molds and things like that. So this is part of my life. Nobody knows about, a few very few people know, know about. And I’m at the end of, uh, so early morning late at night or early morning, I don’t remember exactly, but I go on a, on a hike and then after a mile two I stop. I’m completely alone in that suburban area. And there is that body on the floor and the guy’s house naked and there’s really nobody around. And I get closer and I’m like, oh my God, that must be the person did not seem to be breathing. And I’m like, am I finding a dead body right there. That’s, that’s crazy. What’s, what’s going on? His pants were down. He was looking extremely frail and very dirty and uh, I took his pulse. There was a little of pulse, very frail. And the breathing was so shallow that it totally looked like the person was, was not alive anymore. And then right away I have to think, okay, what do I do to help? What can I, what can I do? And you know, back then I didn’t have smartphones. Um, there was really nobody around. So I put it, I’m sorry, I don’t know why I have problems with my speech right now, but I, I took him on my back and I carried him back to the apartment where I was hosted. And right away I decided that it would probably be a good idea to give him a bath. And because he, he was, he smell was really horrendous. And so I thought, Hey, I’m, the person is, is clearly exhausted and needs a bath. I’m going to put, put him in the bath. And by the time I put him in the bathroom and the guy walk up and he scream and if you, he woke up, basically he woke up and he probably thought, he was wondering, wait, what am I doing here? And this, this white man is there, maybe wants to kill me or something. I don’t know. The guy was completely panicked.

Bryan: 00:34:15 Was He, was he drunk before, do you think? Or did, did he get robbed or something? I mean.

Erwan: 00:34:20 No, I think that he was a homeless person and that he was dying of starvation. Wow. And, uh, that’s what, that’s what it was. I think he was a very, very miserable person with no help. I don’t know. Um, in some, I had, I knew some Chinese, but not enough to actually have conversation with him, but that this point really there’s no conversation to be had the guys in a panic. And, um, I had to calm him down and show him, look, I’m just trying to help you, just want to help you. And then he let me give him a bath. I give this man a bath and then he could not do anything for himself. He could not stand on his own feet. Um, and so I’d run him and dried him. I put some of my clothes on him and then I put him in my bed and he fell asleep right away. I made him actually made him a bit of tea. I made him some, some soup and he couldn’t eat anything. He fell asleep right away. The next morning I went and uh, I went to the office and say, hey, well I need some help. Um, I found somebody so we didn’t know what I was saying. Anyways, they sent somebody over and God, it was a big mistake because the guy, they sent him over thought, didn’t understand and thought that basically if a guys sleeping my, my bed at night or something. Started to ask him question and the guy was, the poor guy was so traumatized and, and scared he could not answer and the guy went over and start to yell at him and then he slapped him in the face and I was horrified and I jump on him say, you stop doing that right now. Anyways, they called the police and they took him away and I had to ask and be like, he hasn’t done anything right. I was just, done anything wrong. I was just trying to help him. And, um, and I was told later on by the, uh, the wife of the, of the owner of a factory that they had taken him to a special place for, you know, homeless people that he would be treated right and everything. Um, but that I should not have done that. And then that now all the towels were dirty because I was, you know, we were sharing that apartment and I asked the translator, I put my hand on that sculpture of there was a sculpture of a Buddha on her office. I put my hand on the Buddha. I said, it’s true. That towels are dirty, but my soul is, is clean. Wow. Translate that please. Wow. Now that’s all there was to do. I mean, all right, I dunno, there was nothing else to do. There was nothing else I could do. But, um, there was no question that I was going to help this man. I was the only person around. So it was my responsibility. It was whatever you call it, Karma, whatever it was brought to me to do something. It, yeah. Every, a lot of moments like that in life. It’s just, it’s just the bad choices. And you’re presented with opportunities to choose and experience who to experience, who you’ve chosen to be. If you’ve chosen to be a certain person, then those, those opportunities will show up. That will give you a chance to manifest that.

Bryan: 00:38:09 Yeah. And, and as I hear you share that story, which is, which is amazing, um, I think about how that might have been a different way of being maybe, um, from who you were when you were younger. Maybe being, I understand you were a bit rebellious who are not willing to, you know, conform to the society exactly as it was organized and so forth.

Erwan: 00:38:34 I was internally, it was rebellious externally on.

Bryan: 00:38:40 No, that, that’s amazing. Well, tell me about the time, I mean, what a tragic loss with the Notre Dame, right. The recent fire there, but, um, I understand that you climbed it at one point and not only did you climb the scaffolding outside, but you actually carried a drum up. Is that, is that right? Well, you tell, tell us a little bit about that. What was that about?

Erwan: 00:39:04 Um, so I was in my early twenties and back then I talk about a little briefly about that in my book at the beginning is that when I was 19, I met this crazy guy, um, who was known because he had jumped off a helicopter by Iceland, but I mean by an iceberg in Iceland or in Greenland. And that was for, he did that with no, uh, no wetsuit or anything. He just did that with a swim trunk. And that was for a, a brand for men, like men’s underwear or something like that. And then, but of course, he didn’t do that as a prank. There was part of his philosophy of life where he practiced breathing and, uh, vegetarianism back then, uh, barefoot, he was always barefoot. And, uh, I mean the whole thing completely matched with my mindset. So when I heard about this guy, I decided to join him and there you go. A start it, you know, that was part of my karate training, it was everything I wanted. It was rebellious beyond expectation. Um, it was anti normalcy, beyond expectation. I loved it. And um, fully like immerse myself in his practice and philosophy, fasting, everything that today by the way, has become a specific trend of his own. Like you call it barefoot running or barefoot Irving. Okay. We did that. Uh, would you call it intermittent fasting? We did that. You call it, um, you know, eating local, seasonal nonprocessed ,we did that. Uh, breathing exercises called immersions. We did that like almost every day. Uh, climbing scaffoldings, jumping from roof to roof. We did that. Today all of those are, they’ve become those like things. Then they all have those thought leaders. But back then what I did was all of this literally, and it was back to Notre Dame. So that crazy guy that I was following back then, I was in my early twenties he was in his late forties, early fifties. He turned himself into more of an artistic, artistic guy. So he start to write poetry and then he played the kettlebell, not the kettlebell, the kettle drum. And then you had the idea of on new years eve to climb on the cathedral that was then renovated already. So that’s 25 years ago. And to go, you know, like this on the front of the cathedral and there is that huge circle shaped sculptor that’s called rosette. A very important part of the structure of the Cathedral. And with the scaffolding’s we were, I was able to, to jump over the fence and climb from the outside of scaffolding so I could not use stairs at climb outside. So holding to just a bar of metal. In the winter with wind. And then the also of course the height because that was probably a 90 feet high. And um, to go to the cathedral is much higher. Right. But to go to that place in the center. And so, and a tie the, the drum with a scarf on my back. So it was just balanced and it was, it was strapped across my chest and my shoulder. So one mistake mean meant that I would have fallen and, and probably died. But it was, it was crazy time. So I did that. And when he reached the, the center just in front of Rosetta, he blew up a, it was called a flair, red flair and starting chanting and beating the drum like crazy. And people, because it was New Year’s Eve people down there, they were going wild and they were dancing and, and screaming and it was crazy. And then he got caught on video and a, and it’s on the, you can see it on Youtube actually. Yeah, you can see me. You can see me jumping over the fence and, and the guy who’s climbing with the kettle drum in his bag, that’s me. But that’s just one of those crazy things we did. All right. That’s not, not the only one. We also broke into the Louvre, the museum, uh, got chased by, by, by dogs. And then by about 40 cars of the whole place all around was locked with police cars everywhere and on the roofs and stuff and the whatever they thought there was some terrorists stuff or I don’t know, back then already. We did plenty of crazy things. Right. Which we jumped, we jumped a whatever, all of the crazy things. Lots of, lots of stories. I could really write a whole book about it.

Bryan: 00:44:49 Yeah. You know, sometimes I marvel at the fact that any of us make it to adulthood. But hearing your stories, especially you in staying out of prison for any of these kinds of stunts and activities you’ve done, how many times did you ever get arrested?

Erwan: 00:45:05 Uh, but three times if I remember well. Wow. But, but uh, but it was always released, uh, very soon after because really I’d never did anything wrong. Anything really criminal.

Bryan: 00:45:20 Yeah. It’s not malicious. We just.

Erwan: 00:45:22 No, there was nothing malicious about it. Okay. All right. See, there’s not even a law saying, I dunno, there’s not, I don’t know. What can you, what can they do or say? Yeah. You know, all you climb, you climb on the scaffolding’s. Okay, we did that. What are you going to do? Yeah, yeah.

Bryan: 00:45:41 Okay. So in just a moment, I want to transition us, um, before I do, I just want to ask you about this. It’s the first after you get through the manifesto in, in the Practice of Natural Movement, you the very first movement, you talk about his breathing and, and so I know you cover a lot. There’s probably 12 pages in there and a lot of, um, I enjoyed reading. I learned quite a few new things about this simple but so infinitely deep practice. If, if, uh, if I were to ask you what is it like why is breathing so important and how is it that so many of us are doing it so wrong and what can we do to, to thrive through our breath?

Erwan: 00:46:30 It’s just like, uh, you know, breathing is a, it’s a physiological function, but [inaudible] it pattern and just like other physiological pattern or like movement for instance. Why is it that people, the way they stand up, the way they sit ,in the they move ways, it’s so stiff ways, it’s so clumsy. The problems with our physical and physiological patterns that they are negatively altered by, by, uh, by the modern life again. So people are stressed, people are, they deal with inflammation in their body because of food and stress. It’s everything is connected. So when breathe, breathing is going to going to be altered. That’s one of those manifestation of a lifestyle that’s already suboptimal. So the way it translates usually is that people breathe through their mouth instead of through their nose and then they are breathing very shallow, which means that instead of breathing just a few times per minute they breath like 20, 30 times per minute and only at the using their upper chest, upper body, upper rib cage. So that is not the healthiest breathing pattern all. And uh, when you change that, when you reverted to nose breathing and abdominal breathing and a calmer, slower breathing cycle, then there are a number of physiological adjustments that take place and that make you healthier, calmer. So, um, uh, provide explanations in the book because of course, you know, there’s always the possibility of talking about the science behind it. But I think that the best is the experience because you can’t, you can’t, you can’t think about the science of things, the science of everything, you know, go outside because you’ll get vitamin D if you get sunlight. And uh, you know, if my point is there’s much more to life that is simply felt that has to be experienced, you can think about it all the time. So breathing is one of those fundamental functions, which if you really want to change it, you want to pay attention more. You want to pay attention right now. You want to pay attention to how you breathe. When I was a kid, um, my first exposure to the importance of breathing was through my clarinet teacher. In the very first lesson before I even touch the instrument, he asked me a question and that very first question was, what is the strongest muscle in your body? And I had no answer for that. I thought, I don’t know, maybe my, maybe my legs. And he said, no, it’s a diaphragm. My what? You’re diaphragm. And then he starts to explain to me what the diaphragm is, and then he gives me cues and makes me feel, and then I start to breath from the abdomen, which I did, but I did not do consciously. And then it’d become conscious. It become even more conscious that then a rehab to use and controls such abdominal breathing format, clarinet practice. If I wanted to, to recover well and to breathe well and to have power in my notes. And then later on, uh, when I was a teenager, I started karate. The great thing is that because of my clarinet practice already had breath control, great breath control, which was very, very helpful. Especially because in karate you’re going to get kicked or punched in the abdomen all the time, which you need to keep your abs contracted all the time, or at least to be able to contract them extremely rapidly if you don’t want to, you know, to be, uh, to, to lose your breath. And, um, so it means that you have to breathe abdominally despite of the intense abdominal tension. And, uh, so and when I met that guy, that I trained with in Paris. It was again the same. It was all about breath control, abdominal breathing, proven those relaxation, uh, very quiet breathing. And then, but the thing is that this was always applied to your movement. So you were, you would be balancing on top of a scaffolding at a height with no safety net. What do you do? You breath, you jump off the bridge at night in the dark waters of the Seine, the river in Paris. What do you do? Your brief, you know, like you really are in control of your breath. It’s, it’s, it was every everywhere in the work. It was. So that was his, uh, one of one of those, uh, teaching things where he would, we would have zero followers. I was one of them. Can you catch us all the time? Having those subconscious behaviors. It was not necessarily me, but hey, here you have tension in your shoulders. You’re shrugging your shoulders. Why? Here you have tension in your hand. Your hand is like this. What is it like this or is it just not relaxed? Why you not present in your body right now? Why you’re not mindful while you’re holding your breath? Why are you tense? Why are you making all those facial expressions that are unnecessary? Why? Because you had emotion. Why do you have emotion? Why you shy? Et cetera, et cetera. So you see, I’ve learned to give myself that kind of feedback. I’ve learned to self examine in it at every level. That doesn’t mean that I see everything, but that means that I see a lot of things about my behaviors that most people cannot see about their own. Yeah. Breathing is is one of those core, core aspect of your physical behavior. There’s just the way you hold your head, your stance, your jesters, the levels of tension or relaxation in your body, the calmness and steadiness and strength of your breath. All of that connects together to make you either in control and held in confident or less. That’s one of the aspects of what I talk about when I say life is the practice of energy at every level. Those are some of the aspects. Not the only ones, cause we want to talk about the emotional, the spiritual, the food, of course, the environment, everything, the family, love, sexual relationships, all of that. All of it. Having a god or not having a god, praying or not praying, meditating, or not meditating. What do you do with every second of your precious life? How is it spent towards, what is it directed? How do you, how do you use it? With what agenda and how? Yeah,

Bryan: 00:54:34 I mean, life’s big questions right there, right? I’ll very deep and, and I love what you’re talking about about these relatively small things like our posture, our facial expression, you know, the way we’re holding our hand, that can be an indicator of something much deeper and much bigger and cultivating the self awareness, right? And all the benefits that can come along with that and everything. You’re, you’re saying. I’ve only in the last few years started to really get keyed in on the importance of breath. To the quality of our experience to the results we produce. I remember doing a program with, um, with the mystic sod guru, and I remember he said that if you, if you know how, if you observe someone’s breath, you can know their past and their future. And I’m like, what, you know, maybe maybe a mystic or maybe a normal human with practice. So anyway, okay. So thank you for sharing that and thank you for including that in the book. As I said, um, I’ve taken a lot away from that. I haven’t found the partner to do that, that exercise with the partner yet. Um, I’m going to do that.

Erwan: 00:55:44 I don’t even remember if I put, I pray I didn’t put that in. You don’t want to, well, you may want to find a partner to that one. But remember my, my clarinet teacher who would tell me, hey, it’s the strongest muscle in your body. And so in my workshop I would demonstrate that by picking the heaviest guy I could find in the whole gang of participants and have him stand you know, step with one foot and stand on one foot on my abdomen and keep breathing and keep breathing. And then people could see him elevating and descending and elevating and descending. Not that, I never said, hey, it’s comfortable, easy piece of cake. Of course it’s, it’s, it’s not comfortable. Of course I wouldn’t want that to last forever. But look, I am not breathing through my chest. Nonetheless. I still can breathe through my abdomen. It shows you how much power you have right there and you two can develop the same power.

Bryan: 00:56:50 In the interest of time, um, I want to make sure to ask you a few other questions that I think listeners will enjoy and benefit from. So let me, let me shift us now to the lightning round. These questions, by the way, are designed. You can take as long as you want to answer them. I’ve designed them for me to give you a concise question. Number one, please complete the following sentence. Life is like a…

Erwan: 00:57:19 Heart.

Bryan: 00:57:19 Number two, what? Something at which you wish you were better. Love

Erwan: 00:57:27 Love. Is possibility to be better at love. I’m not saying I’m bad. I’m saying, I will always wish that I’m better at love.

Bryan: 00:57:37 Mm. Number three, if you were required every day for the rest of your life to wear a tee shirt with a slogan on it, or a phrase or a saying or a quote or equip, what would the shirt say?

Erwan: 00:57:53 I love you God.

Bryan: 00:57:55 Hmm. All right. Number four, what book other than your own, have you gifted or recommended most often?

Erwan: 00:58:03 Conversation With God.

Bryan: 00:58:06 Neil Donald Walsh.

Erwan: 00:58:11 We met in Paris a long time ago.

Bryan: 00:58:13 Wow. Amazing. Number five, you travel a ton. What’s one travel hack, meaning something you do or something you take with you when you travel to make your travel less painful or more enjoyable?

Erwan: 00:58:31 But if I travel with my, with my wife and children, there’s just makes it much, much better than just being on my own. So, I don’t know if that counts as a hack, but it is mine. Otherwise like, you know, food. It’s food that I bring that is not from the airport or the plane.

Bryan: 00:58:54 What do you like to be sure you have with you? Food Wise.

Erwan: 00:58:58 Jerky.

Bryan: 00:59:01 Okay. All right. Number six. What’s one thing you’ve started or stopped doing in order to live or age well?

Erwan: 00:59:18 So definitely uh, taking that kind risk that are like dealing with real danger in my practice. This i’ve stopped. I mean, you have kids I love, I love, um, I love my family. They love me. I cannot be missing. So definitely something I’ve stopped. Um, and uh, just something that I’ve just made the decision very recently actually was, um, to fully quiet down. And what I mean by that is that being a father of three young kids, uh, everything I’ve done to build that. You know, that company and then the book has taken from me so much time and energy and I’ve had so much on my plate and so much to do. And I’ve been honestly secure, fully juggling with all of that. But that was just way too much work and at a pace that was too often too high pace and now I just completely made the conscious decision that I refused to be hurried. I refuse to be hurried. I just, I have a, an agreement with myself that I want whatever time anything is going to take, I’m going to take the time. So that because when you want to do too much or too fast, you actually make the decision to accelerate time. And that time acceleration is stressful that you like it or not, you may still feel young and have lots of energy and boundless, you know, resources of energy to do it. But there will be a time where you can’t do it anymore. And I felt that that time has arrived for me. So now I’m pacing and it’s brilliant. It’s so much better. Yeah.

Bryan: 01:01:23 No, that’s the kind of agreement you can make with yourself that would change your whole life. Right. That’s beautiful. Number seven. What’s one thing you wish every American knew?

Erwan: 01:01:38 Okay. I’m not sure about, um Bryan I’m not sure about this question because, uh, if I say Americans than I’m making it somewhat implies a, um, abayas like a kind of cultural, a generality about, you know, what I think about my fellow US citizens and I love my country. I love, I love American people. They are not perfect. There are no culture is perfect. Well, so this being said, if there was a cultural generality that I can observe and that wish that more Americans were paying attention to is to actually be more relaxed. There’s a ton of tension and you know, even people can, can look like they’re relaxed and smiling and this and that, but actually they’re very busy in their head and there’s a lot of tension in their head. A thing that, um, compared to other. Right now I’m in Mexico and you can say whatever you think about Mexico or Mexican people. But overall, and again, that’s a generality. People are more relaxed. There are pros and cons to that. But I think that there’s more benefits than issues with being relaxed. They smile more and they’re just the more genuinely attentive to other people. I can say that. So that’s maybe something that as a culture are Americans could, could be inspired by, by. It’s about, you know, teaching a lesson or making a judgment. It’s like we could be inspired by.

Bryan: 01:03:32 Yeah. No, I wish, I wish every American knew that as well. The value of that for sure. Okay. So let me ask you this. Um, if people want to learn more from you or connect with you, what would you have them do?

Erwan: 01:03:50 I’m not sure if um, people to be more, to learn more about me.

Bryan: 01:03:58 Or the work you do. Let’s say that about MoveNat.

Erwan: 01:04:01 That’s, that’s the thing is that, you know, I have not called my work the Erwan Le Corre method. Right. It’s not after my name. I have not branded me or my name because I never wanted people to be interested in me. I wanted people to have a tool in their hands that they can use and learn and implement, experiment to improve them. It’s about like MovNat and [inaudible]. The name of my method for natural movement. That’s what it is about. It’s not about me, it’s about the tool that you can learn. And so if you apply it, you will see that it will improve your life. Definitely. So there’s the website called Movnat.com and movie in hd.com and of course The Practice of Natural Movement book is my opus magnum. It’s my, my, it’s the work of a of a lifetime really. And um, it explains the national movement philosophy, but it’s also mostly a how to, so what it is really, it’s the MovNat method book. It’s not all about, it’s not everything that method is, but if you want to learn about this philosophy but also most important at this practice and how we can change your life, you want to read that book.

Bryan: 01:05:27 Yeah, it’s, it’s pretty amazing. And um, as I mentioned earlier that you have programs that are available, uh, I know at least all over the US. Are they offered internationally as well?

Erwan: 01:05:39 Oh, absolutely. Internationally actually. So we have thousands of certified trainers around the world. And my team, we have a MovNat instructors team. We hold workshops around the world. So that’s a lot in the US but also in Europe and Asia and whatever. South Africa, Australia, Brazil, soon we’ve done China, Japan, so it’s uh, it’s absolutely, it’s an international community. Then we’re also present on a PR present, pardon my French, on social media. We have a on Instagram and then we have online coaching as well. We have an online course and that we have a certification so we can either come and train with us, but you can also learn how to teach this. And it’s a three level certification.

Bryan: 01:06:37 That’s awesome.

Erwan: 01:06:38 Currently working on, I’m currently working on and your website called Natural Movement.com as you would expect, shocker. And uh, where the point is to turn my book into online video courses. So I’m currently working on that.

Bryan: 01:06:55 I want to get certified in the work I do with coaching. I realized as I look back over the last seven years, so much of what I’ve learned is from here to here. It’s from the neck up. It’s not totally embodied. And I know it’s benefited me to just practice some of what I’ve learned from you and others recently, Mark Divine and John Wineland and, and some others. So, um, I want to do it.

Erwan: 01:07:20 No, I think it’s a brilliant move.

Bryan: 01:07:22 I do want to be sure to let you know that I’m grateful for you making time to talk with me and everybody who’s listening. One of the ways that I’ve endeavored to show that gratitude is by making a micro loan on your behalf. So I went online to kiva.org and made a hundred dollar micro loan to a woman in India. Her name is Sun Tassie. She’s 32 years old. She lives in West Bengal and she will use this money to purchase more grain, um, that she will share in her retail business. She’ll sell in her retail business. So this woman makes, she’s got four members in her family, makes about 129 US dollars a month, but she’ll use this to help improve the life for, for her family and those around her. So anyway, that’s in your honor at that small gesture. So thank you.

Erwan: 01:08:10 That’s beautiful. Thank you so much.

Bryan: 01:08:12 I, I’d just like to ask, um, a couple questions, a few questions maybe about the creative process and about writing. You’ve taken a lifetime of learning and experience and knowledge, all of this, put it between two covers and I’m wondering what you learned in the process of trying to distill all of this thought, all of this experience, all of this wisdom into something that people can buy, people can read, they can understand, they can enjoy, they can benefit from. And I know that’s, that’s not an easy thing to do and many, many people want to do that. But I’m wondering what you learned in the process of doing that, that other people might benefit from knowing. Was it like the power of routine? Was it, you know, how useful it is to have an outline, to have a good editor, to have a co-writer to use a certain software? Like is there anything at all like that that other people might go, oh, that’s the key that unlocks where I’m stuck.

Erwan: 01:09:09 So I don’t know. My wife would tell you that I’m a Virgo and so is she. And so that we are very organized in here. Um, and um, so it starts for me, it starts with the critical thinking. I’ve always had that critical thinking as far as I can remember and so already in the design of the curriculum for the MovNat certification, already had to detail a number of insights and, and, and structure all of that curriculum. So doing the book was no different, but it was just a much bigger task because of the, the sheer volume of information that I was willing to share. Uh, eventually it became a 480 pages textbook and again, 200 pages were cut and people say it’s textbook and people were like, whoa. It’s like takes so long to read. And that’s too much information. Never say no, it’s not too much. It’s amazing. It’s an encyclopedia. It should be sold for $200 or more. Others were like that’s not what I expected. I wanted primer. I want something simpler. You know what? That book is the best version of delivering my knowledge that I could come up with after working on it for years and going through revision and revision and then reading and rereading and reproofing and re editing and reading again and rewriting again. It’s just, it’s been a distillation process where I wanted to be zero fat in the end. Like nothing to be changed. Nothing to be added or removed. That’s the reason I want it. Maybe one thing that I have not learned is to be less critical and to be less perfectionist. I have not that. The book did not learn, taught me because I would not have published that book if that had not been fully satisfied with the results. Yeah.

Bryan: 01:11:22 And, and that’s so valuable though to hear you say that, that you never lost that what, what, what might be called a perfectionist tendency, but you managed to complete it anyway because I think many people run into that and they stop. What allowed you to keep going beyond that?

Erwan: 01:11:37 Because, okay. When I moved to the US there was in 2009. .n 2009, uh, went to the immigration lawyer in Las Vegas, uh, to get my visa, I’ve got granted what’s called an O1, visa for exceptional exceptional abilities means a person who brings something very unique to the community or you know, the country, economy, whatever it is. Um, in the, it was already part of that application for that visa that, uh, I had a mockup of the book and the title was The Philosophy and Practice of Natural Movement already. And the photo was me like holding and carrying a massive stone in my lap. That’s 2009, the book is published 10 years later. So either I’m a very lazy guy or I got crazy busy, so crazy that I could not work on that book or I’m very slow. All of that. I don’t know. But the thing is, it took me all that time to, for all my ideas and all my principals and all my work to major into and to finally be manifested into that material. And I’m sorry I was not going to do it five years later just because five years ahead they already had announced it and it was already five years later. And I’m like, whoa, what people must be thinking. What is he doing is announced that book five years earlier. Well, sorry guys, it will be in 10 years actually 10 years later, but I will publish my, my book. It’s on my terms. It’s my work. It’s not, it’s nobody else’s. I’m not doing it because I want to be because it’s gonna sell and I need the money or whatever it is. I’m not going to do it. Rush it just because I want to be a published author. I want to be a name or whatever. It’s going to be published when I know that it’s, it’s been done. That is already. That there’s nothing else I can think about that I need to work on that, that I need to include that would be missing from that manuscript. Period. That’s integrity.

Bryan: 01:13:58 No, that’s powerful. So my last, my last question and thank you for sharing that. You have created something that might be called a movement, right? It might be accurately thought of as that and clearly enrolled many other people. They also share this desire, this vision, and they’ve, they’ve come a board to participate in some way. As a trainer, as a participant, whatever. What have you learned that has been essential for you in building, an organization where you have leaders who can effectively train, coach, lead others through material you developed.

Erwan: 01:14:38 Well, it’s simply a trust. It’s not that I was not able of trust it. Just that you know, you trust people when you observe, you get to know them. Observe as they are the right people for you in your relationship. That it is friendship, that it is love, that it is work. You know those three principles of sustainable relationships are respect, trust, and then satisfaction. So for a leader to have a team, you either recruit or people come to you and say, Hey, I like to work for you. I’m interested in your work. And then you assess them and then you start a relationship with them and then you start with a little something and then the relationship starts to increase on that basis, on the basis of those. Three principles, which are trust, respect and satisfaction. And there you go. And then ultimately when, depending on your say, levels of demand, how demanding you are in those respects of trust, respect and relation and a and satisfaction. Ultimately you trust people. So right now for instance, I have a team and uh, they do, they do everything so that I can focus on other creative tasks. Which had, which for instance that could never have written this book if I didn’t have a team that was doing everything. So I’ve learned to, I’ve learned to have a team and I have learned to, to, to delegate. That’s the thing, actually, it’s, it’s more of a thing is that I have had a hard time delegating anything. I’d like to do things. I’ve always been a loner. I’ve always been somebody who just likes to be, to be taking care of business, taking care of things myself. And then um now I actually love to do the opposite. I love to delegate. I’ve learned that along the years be like, no. And I have a new project from a how can have this be mostly taken care of by the person who just has the skills to do it so I don’t have to learn new skills again and um, so, but I don’t have to put my mind into this again. In so that I can just enjoy my life and only take care of the creative part of it.

Bryan: 01:17:14 No, that, that’s amazing. And I know many people are looking for that in delegation is a simple concept as well. I’ll, you know, but how do you make delegation work? What makes it effective for you?

Erwan: 01:17:25 You first, uh, first you make the decision that you delegate. Truly, you don’t be like, oh, I think I could delegate, but in the back of your mind your like, uh, you know, I’m going to do it myself anyways. You really have to, to make the decision. And then secondly, it depends on the type of project of course. And you have different people with different kind of skills. So I’m going to look at the kind of skills people have, but then I’m also going to look at the kind of people people are. In that regard you know, with that, that kind of intuition that plays into, that comes into play where you, you, you intuitively know people are the right people to work with. Or I look at the integrity. I look at people’s integrity. It doesn’t matter if you’re the best at what you do, if you’re not a good person. And I can tell if I, if I don’t feel that you have integrity, then you’re not in my team. Period. That’s the people who are in my team are awesome people. They’re just good people. They’re not just smart and skilled, they’re just good people. I know that I can trust them. I know that they’re good, they have good intentions and that’s very important. And all of them that they are, uh, the, the people from instructors or, or just the marketing people, whatever they are. It’s just I know that they are good people. And that energy is very important because when you start to do with egos and you know, deceptive people and stuff like that and he can really ruin a, a, a team and, uh, every successful company is made of a good team. So the team matters a lot. But the team is made of individuals. So when you recruit a new person, you get to make sure that they’re not going to be, you know, the worm in the apple.

Bryan: 01:19:24 Yeah. Again, thank you. I mean I could go on and maybe someday there’s a part two. Maybe after I do the certification in this. Um, but at any rate, I, I suspect we’ll meet in person somewhere someday. Don’t know when or where, but I’ll look forward to it. And in the meantime I’ll be following along, reading your blogs and finishing the book. So thank you very much for being here today. I hope you have a wonderful time on your boat.

Erwan: 01:19:50 Thank you. I’ve really enjoyed this convo, you have an awesome, super positive energy. Really. Um, also a, a quietness of the mind that I can sense. And so thank you so much. It was an enjoyable time. And I hope that our audience will enjoy.

Bryan: 01:20:08 Yes, I think they will.