Podcast Episode 186

with our guest Coaches Commonplace Book

Coaches Commonplace Book #4

Dean Miles [00:00:00] There’s what you achieve and then there’s being happy. Don’t blend those two things together. It’s important to achieve. If what you’re doing makes things better, just your contentment or your joy or your meaning in life can’t just be that.

Brilliant Miller [00:00:27] Welcome back, Dean to this, our fourth episode of the coaches commonplace book. Welcome. Thanks for joining me today.

Dean Miles [00:00:36] Brilliant, Miller. I look forward to these. And what’s been cool is that since run into people as I’ve been traveling that you and I know some of them just know you some of them just know me with. I’m enjoying those. And that’s all. That’s always good to hear. Right. I know you and I are having a good time with these, but the fact that someone’s listening and it’s helping them as is icing on the cake.

Brilliant Miller [00:01:01] Yeah, I agree. We never know where these words go. I sometimes think of the. The Voyager, the satellite.

Dean Miles [00:01:09] Yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:01:09] Three of Carl Sagan. And I forget her name right now. But they decided what was it that humanity would put into this thing in the form of recordings and photographs and send out into the universe to see who knows who receives it. You know, and we just never know where the things we send out into the universe land.

Dean Miles [00:01:31] Yeah, it’s very, very true. But it was great. It was unexpected. And. And it did it. It landed well for me.

Brilliant Miller [00:01:40] Awesome. I’m glad to hear it. Well, let’s get going. Let’s talk about our information diet. What have you been consuming lately, Dean, and what impact is it having on your life?

Dean Miles [00:01:50] I look for the big reveal.

Brilliant Miller [00:01:52] Oh, the earned life. I just bought that on Kindle. It was on a flash sale for a dollar 99.

Dean Miles [00:01:57] I was actually I was with Marshall Goldsmith as he’s speaking right in front of me and I’m getting push notifications and emails from his team. Buy now, buy now, buy now. I was like, what is happening? So got a cool signed copy with my name on it.

Brilliant Miller [00:02:15] Very cool. What does it say?

Brilliant Miller [00:02:17] “Thank you for being in 100 coaches. Marshall Goldsmith.”

Dean Miles [00:02:22] Cool. So that was very cool. So I wanted to make sure I read this. So I got to spend a long weekend Thursday evening through Monday afternoon with this, a group of just thought leaders, coaches, executives, and people with UNICEF. People with World Health. Common theme, two things. One is people that are wanting to make the planet better in any way that they can. That’s a first come thing, the second kind of thing. The theme is these are the people that you would want to go have a meal with. They’re so interesting and they’re so interested in you. So I spent a weekend doing that. But Marshall Goldsmith and Mark Ryder, who I’ve also gotten to know, both say this is probably their best book, their fourth New York bestseller, and kind of takes all these things. And I think it’s just the old man’s perspective. Brilliant. I think Marshall’s now 73 or 74 and this idea of just losing regret and choosing fulfillment and then a Buddhist kind of philosophy that Marshall tends to follow. I’ve just, you know, Marshall does his hands like, let it go, let go. So the urn life of to remove this idea of I’ll be happy when I just remove that and now I choose to be happy. So that’s one that’s in there. And then second is to remove outcomes from how you feel. There’s what you achieve and then there’s being happy. Don’t blend those two things together. It’s important to achieve if what you’re doing is makes things better. But don’t let that be. What’s the right word there? Just your contentment or your joy or your meaning in life can’t just be that. You probably have more to say on that.

Brilliant Miller [00:04:20] No, that’s such a beautiful perspective. And what the first part of what you’re saying when Marshall talks about I’ll be happy win or I’ll be happy. The first time I heard him say that. He described it as the great Western disease.

Dean Miles [00:04:32] Yes. Yes, exactly right. Said the same thing in this crowd.

Brilliant Miller [00:04:35] Yeah. I think there’s a lot a lot of truth in that. And then and then this other part.

Dean Miles [00:04:39] About.

Brilliant Miller [00:04:39] Divorcing your happiness from the results you produce or don’t produce. And I think that kind of works both ways. And what I mean by that is I heard Tony Robbins say, I love the way he phrases this, that there’s no necessary relationship between problems and happiness.

Dean Miles [00:04:54] Hmm.

Brilliant Miller [00:04:55] Right. And so and then the other thing he said, two other things actually, Tony has said about the single most important decision you’ll ever make in your life is a decision to be happy no matter what. Which, you know, there’s a lot that we could say about that. But I think it’s aligned with what Marshall’s saying. Right. But then as number 20 says about if you’re only.

Dean Miles [00:05:12] Happy.

Brilliant Miller [00:05:13] When you get what you want or you’re only happy when things go your way, that’s not happiness. That’s a stimulus-response.

Dean Miles [00:05:18] Yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:05:19] And so this idea.

Dean Miles [00:05:21] Of.

Brilliant Miller [00:05:21] Just divorcing or dissociating your happiness from what happens, good or bad.

Dean Miles [00:05:27] Right now, being in a room full of smart people, you think this group would be like, that’s a good point. I’m going to do that instead. All these hands. But what is and what about this and what about that? And I don’t. Let it go. Well, we try to make this. We try to overcomplicate it. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:05:48] Yeah, we do. And it was Hemmingway that said Happiness and intelligent people is the rarest thing I know. Right. And then such.

Dean Miles [00:05:56] A great line.

Brilliant Miller [00:05:58] Freud talked about intelligence being of no service to us in resolving our neuroses because we’ll just fuel them with that intelligence.

Dean Miles [00:06:07] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:06:07] So in case, I think the difference between kind of knowledge and wisdom, so we can know a lot of things or we can even have an innate capacity to the problem, solve or grasp things at a deep level. We can have a strong intellect, but that’s different from being wise.

Dean Miles [00:06:22] Yes. Yeah. So good. Now, the other part of this weekend and I want to hear about your info is your info dates been is that we got to spend because we were in Nashville so we get to spend time with a lot of songwriters and brilliant. I just kept thinking minute brilliant was sitting next to me. He would ask so many other amazing questions to ask. I did my best to represent you. Okay, so so Pat Agler, I think, is saying his last name, right? Nine time number one hits have written many, many songs for Garth Brooks, and he’s just telling the story behind them. So When The Thunder Rolls is a popular one. Small town Saturday night is a popular one. Unanswered prayers are a popular one. And so he was asked, what does it take to write a, quote, great song? And there was a little bit of a lead in by this question. It has to be the lyrics, right? Because he’s a songwriter. Right. And he said, let me tell you this. No one whistles the lyrics. And I was like, Oh, that’s so good. Now the lyrics matter. Let’s hear a great song. Got to have that hook. You got to have that melody or that chorus. But no one whistles the lyrics. I have found the right way to apply that to our lives. You know that you know, maybe I could just say the right things. But it’s what I do that people would whistle like, I don’t know how to correlate that back to a life principle, but I’ll never forget the statement. No one whistles the lyrics.

Brilliant Miller [00:07:51] That’s. That’s fun. That’s. That’s beautiful. You know, that kind of reminds me of the saying that when you’re happy, you feel the rhythm. But when you’re sad, you hear the lyrics.

Dean Miles [00:08:01] You can see. How do you come up with so good? Yeah, that’s gold. Well, I said, What about you? What are you taking in?

Brilliant Miller [00:08:09] So I have been I actually think I said this last time we talked, but I’m still big and I’m on a few things. One is Julia’s camera’s the artist’s way. And to be honest, I’m actually not reading the book as much as doing what she prescribes in the book, namely morning pages, three pages of longhand free writing every day. And I’ve done it for, I don’t know, maybe 60 days. And it’s been an interesting exercise too, I think, kind of it’s almost like a release valve.

Dean Miles [00:08:43] For less.

Brilliant Miller [00:08:44] Thought or energy or maybe unacknowledged desire, just, you know, and I don’t even go back and read it. I don’t share it with anybody. But I’ll often just start with a stream of consciousness, a kind of free association writing. Sometimes I will share an experience or try to capture a scene, you know, for whatever reason, or ask myself a question and then just riff. And you know, you’ve probably had this experience, I think we all have where we’re in conversation with someone, whether it’s a friend or a therapist or, you know, maybe our spouse or partner or whatever. And we say something and then we think, Oh my gosh, I didn’t know. I really believe that or I didn’t know I felt that way. Right, right. And I’ve even had the experience, the equivalent kind of in writing where sometimes I do go back and read it and I’ll think, I don’t remember writing that, or I wasn’t consciously aware. It’s interesting to me how we do have these two parts of ourselves. At least two parts, right? The conscious and the unconscious.

Dean Miles [00:09:39] And yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:09:40] The iceberg metaphor is as cliche as it is, it seems to be relevant. So that’s what you’re doing.

Dean Miles [00:09:46] You’re doing this first thing in the morning. You said.

Brilliant Miller [00:09:48] No, it’s called morning pages, I think because maybe that’s when, you know, many people do it or they’re encouraged to do it. I just endeavor to do it before I go to sleep sometime. It takes me I do it. I used to do it on an eight and a-half by 11 legal pad. It was a lot of writing. It took me about a half hour. I since by a mosque in the smaller the eight and a.

Dean Miles [00:10:08] Half inch.

Brilliant Miller [00:10:09] By five.

Dean Miles [00:10:10] Inch, you’re going to start writing on something like this trying to get those pages in.

Brilliant Miller [00:10:16] But I think.

Dean Miles [00:10:16] You’re like my personal best.

Brilliant Miller [00:10:18] Yeah, that’s right. And it takes me about 20 minutes now, but an attempt to connect with that. But I hope, you know that intelligence is that unconscious. So that’s one thing the artist way.

Dean Miles [00:10:30] Well, can I ask you one more question is because 60 days I mean, that’s enough of a test. If you were to go the sixth the next 60 and not do that, what do you think would be noticeably missing?

Brilliant Miller [00:10:45] Yeah, that’s a good question. I think part of it might be I think we’re all this way to differing degrees of, you know, we crave structure and we simultaneously resist it. So I think part of what might be missing is the sense of, you know, as I go throughout each day, as I go through the 1440 minutes that make up a day, I’m looking as we all are for, you know, how to spend my time. And just sometimes that 20 minutes of time with myself, I think that sense of, you know, maybe connection and then maybe also having something that anchors or structures my day, I think that that could be missing after having done it a couple of months. I think I might well, I might welcome a 60-day break as well.

Dean Miles [00:11:29] Well, I’m going to tie that back into my article because I think you just gave me an idea. So I’ll pause there and we’ll come back to Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:11:36] Right on. And then the other thing that I’ve been reading, I just actually finished this afternoon a book by a therapist and a teacher named Ralph de la Rosa. And I actually I’m going to interview him Friday. I’m very grateful that he’s accepted to be on my podcast, but he’s written a couple of books. His most recent is called Don’t Tell Me to Relax Emotional Resilience in the Age of Rage Fields and Freak Outs. And then his other book is called The Monkey is the Messenger Meditation and What Your Busy Mind Is Trying To Tell You. And his books, they’re written. You know, every book is written from a place, right? Like an emotion or a life experience. And I find Ralph’s is particularly interesting because he was an addict. He was he’s got Hispanic blood in him. He’s been gender fluid.

Dean Miles [00:12:33] Mm-hmm.

Brilliant Miller [00:12:33] You know, and his meditation and mindfulness, he’ll say, have literally saved his life. And now he’s made a conscious effort to give back to life. He’s worked with people in the foster system, people in poverty, and extreme poverty. And so in any way, I’m appreciating some of the perspectives and a lot of the lessons that Ralph is sharing just in these books. And I’m really looking forward to talking to him.

Dean Miles [00:12:58] I can see how just even his use of language and words would resonate with you.

Brilliant Miller [00:13:04] Yeah. This last in the book, I just finished. Don’t tell me to relax. The last part of the book. The last part. A book. He’s talking about privilege.

Dean Miles [00:13:13] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:13:13] That. That’s something that. You know, I’m still working with myself and there’s so many being able-bodied, being white, being male, having well, you know, it’s a thing that that for a long time I felt guilty about in many ways, especially comparing against how many who struggle with so much and how easy my life is and the question of responsibility and things like that. And the fact that Ralph, even he’s aware enough to know that that’s something that readers are dealing with, I thought was was pretty insightful. And, and it’s given me a lot to think about.

Dean Miles [00:13:49] Yeah, I know that it is. Because if you’re watching this right now, pause. Go back to when Brilliant was reading the title and really pay attention to all those micro features on its face. Because, dude, it resonates. I mean, now it resonates. I mean, but that title, that book it is landed with you. And I can see it as soon as you. As soon as you read it. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. Love that.

Brilliant Miller [00:14:17] Yeah, absolutely. So with that, Dean, I know you were just telling me a little bit about your time in Nashville and with the songwriters and with maybe 100. But I think you were telling me in one of our conversations between these recordings that this was the first time you’ve been to the I think Marshall calls it Everything I Know.

Dean Miles [00:14:36] Kind of thing I know.

Brilliant Miller [00:14:38] And for those who don’t know that Marshall Goldsmith is in the middle of something, he’s created a project for himself. He calls the Knowledge Philanthropy Project, where he’s giving away as best he can his life’s experience, his knowledge, his wisdom to us and many others in the form of his books and his talks, and some of these workshops that he hosts. But then you went and you spent time with him and others in the community. What else did you take away? What else are you learning from? From Marshall?

Dean Miles [00:15:06] Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:15:06] The things coming out of his mouth and from the life that he’s living.

Dean Miles [00:15:10] Yeah. It’s under this. This umbrella or this environment of no guilt, no obligation, no money. That’s his expectation. When? When as you’ve been invited into this empty 100. No guilt, no obligation, no money. And you think about any other group that you’ve joined is probably the complete opposite of those three. And its expectation is that when you get into your mid-seventies that you will be standing up in front of the room of a group that you have attracted and you’re doing the same thing. It’s giving it away. It’s I mean, so much of what Marshall was saying is if you’re doing good things. Is the planet better if more people had access to this good thing you were doing? If it’s yes, then tell this group about it and we’re going to use all the leverage and all the network we have. Let’s go make an impact, not a dent. Let’s go significantly change things. Here’s how. He also lands this. And this is 30, 40 years of hard introspection. Making a lot of mistakes. Getting it right often. We talked about these three things that are necessary. One, you have to have humility. Second, you have to have courage. And third, you have to have discipline. So just those three things alone. You could spend a lifetime getting deep in and trying to either use air quotes your master my conversation with Marshall as I wish there were rollover effort rollover minutes of these things because I could really nail it today on August 3rd. But then I go to bed. There are some life momentum to reputation, momentums of integrity, momentum. But I have to start all over again and then bring my best effort. So I really enjoyed it when Marshall talks about that. Life’s not fair. Get over about get over it. And Peter Drucker’s statement is Peter Drucker would give account to a board is that the person who has the power gets to make the decisions and it’s your job to make peace with that. Yeah. No, if you can’t. Right. Move on.

Brilliant Miller [00:17:34] Yeah. That’s a tough, tough lesson. I’ve heard Marshall talk about that in some of the stories he shared, how that’s particularly hard for people in positions of leadership, including CEOs who have a board or who have a shareholder who ultimately is in the position of being able to make a decision, and that that kind of double bind of the leader having been installed or hired or whatever to make decisions and to leave. Yet there’s someone else who ultimately has the ability to make a decision and how hard that can be. But why that so why is that? If we find ourselves in that situation, we make peace with that.

Dean Miles [00:18:09] Right? Yeah. I mean, is we’re not someone illegal. We’re not talking about immoral or not unethical. It’s just a difference of opinion, you know? And so, I mean, the stakes can be high opinions. Two very emotions can be heightened. So make peace with it. Right next, he also talks about asking for help. And he’s been around some of the most successful people on our planet in his lifetime. And what they do well is that they ask for help. They also say it starts with me. They also say, let’s do it together. So really, really interesting. You know, these are known recipes and then I could probably go on and on here. Brilliant. So nothing comes to my mind. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:18:59] Real quick to just jump in there. I think that is an example, right, of when he says humility.

Dean Miles [00:19:05] Of.

Brilliant Miller [00:19:05] Asking for help.

Dean Miles [00:19:07] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:19:07] Right. Many people that for whatever reason, their pride or they don’t want to look bad or admit weakness or something. Yes, there it is. And yeah, he oh.

Dean Miles [00:19:17] Yeah. He often cites Alan Mulally, who was a CEO at Boeing. Who then went to Ford. And he knows nothing about the automotive industry. Right. He was the first, I think, non-Ford to be in that position, not a family member. And I think one of his first acts was to bring in every single dealer and many of these were multigenerational family dealerships. And he just started off with, we’re really in trouble. Like we’re really in trouble. And I need your help. Now, I’m confident if we do this together, we can do this. But I need your help. It sounds so obvious right when we hear the story, but it seems like the majority of the time what actually does happen is that that leader gets there and says, I’ve got it all figured out. Just do what I tell you to do. Yeah, well, I think that that’s what we admire, but it’s not.

Brilliant Miller [00:20:14] And part of the challenge, I think, with this, too, especially when we’re talking about leadership, is that there are many things that are situations specific. There’s the particular industry, the particular business, the other executives in the business, and who we are and our style and things like that. So there’s, you know, something? There are principles that I think we’re wise to remember at play. And at the same time, there’s our own style and our own inner voice. So I think that can be one of the challenges. But Dean is you is you’re around a lot of these smart and experienced and capable people and you’re one yourself. How do you see striking that balance between the kind of using someone else’s playbook, so to speak, or learning from the experience of others, and then honoring your own inner lights?

Dean Miles [00:21:01] Yeah, it’s a great question. I’m going to go back to another thing that Marshall has introduced to us, to you and I is the ah. These are daily questions. Mm-hmm. And the daily questions help me. I would call it a knife’s edge between doing someone else’s playbook and then living my own meaningful life. Mm-hmm. Because it ultimately comes down to is, did I do my best to do X? Did I do my best to find meaning today? Did I do my best to choose happiness today? Did I do my best to to to build a positive relationship? Right. And this question can go on and on, but it ultimately comes down to me. It could be someone else’s playbook, but that’s not good enough for it to have happened. And that playbook won’t beat make me happy. Yeah, but it’s every day. Daily questions. Daily questions. Did I do my best today? I’ve been doing it every single day. I found the photo I showed Marshall Dust. It was June 13th, 2015. I’ve been doing it nearly. I’m a man, of course. I’m average, I’m normal. I’d miss some days. But on the Internet, I’ve done it nearly every day since then and I hate it.

Brilliant Miller [00:22:22] So let me ask you this. How do you think your life is different? This may be a leading question. How do you like this better? Because you’ve been doing this daily questions, discipline for seven years.

Dean Miles [00:22:34] Yeah. I mean, without question, I know that it is. I you could ask my wife. You could ask my children. You could ask my parents. You can ask my business partner. You could ask my clients. There’s no doubt that it is. I mean, you can graph the trajectory of what I was doing and that was very much a sees get degrees just do enough to get it done. Now, I’m not saying I am still like that in the right areas, but taking those things that they’re on my list of the things that I know are important to me and I choose to do my best every day on those. So the fact I got down to work a week, a month. All right. That was the result of doing my daily questions every single day, being able to go full-time in an RV for two and a half years, and being able to go and live in Mexico for a year and a half. Yeah. Just on. I mean, my health, my overall health, my cholesterol level, my weight, all those things are better because I’m doing these questions every day.

Brilliant Miller [00:23:36] That’s awesome. Well, good for you. There’s.

Dean Miles [00:23:39] Thank you.

Brilliant Miller [00:23:40] There’s power in that and questions. I think even though, you know, we’re coaches and I know many people listening to this are coaches, I think we even still sometimes forget the incredible power or at least the potential power of questions.

Dean Miles [00:23:55] Yes. Especially when you create it. It’s my list. It’s not someone. It’s not my wife’s list. It’s not my business partners list decline since I put it on there. And to ask, too, I had to look in the mirror. Did I do my best? And if not, why not? It’s brutal. I was reminded of this quote, from Theodore Roosevelt, if you could kick the person in the pants responsible for them for most of your trouble, you wouldn’t sit down for a month.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:27] That’s funny.

Dean Miles [00:24:29] That’s so true. Right. The look in the mirror. Look in the mirror.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:33] Right on. Well, shall we transition to the wisdom of the pages?

Dean Miles [00:24:38] Yes, indeed.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:40] Okay. I’m looking forward to hearing what magazine you picked and what your article was. And sharing with you mine. So this month, I do have a physical magazine. I buy.

Dean Miles [00:24:51] Esquire.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:53] That has damn good advice for fathers.

Dean Miles [00:24:55] So I can. I can use that. I mean, and good advice.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:59] What the editors at Esquire, I’m not sure that they’re a paragon of parenting, but we’ll see. We’ll see. So I sketched out my own ideas. I’d love to hear a few of your thoughts before we even open and see what the wisdom of the pages contains. What did you pick before we jump into mine? What? What? What have you got?

Dean Miles [00:25:17] Boy, just the oddest, the oddest. I didn’t know even existed. A magazine called International Students. Okay. Never heard of me either. No, me either. And it’s six ways to spend a mental health day. Hmm.

Brilliant Miller [00:25:37] Right on.

Dean Miles [00:25:38] So I was intrigued by this.

Brilliant Miller [00:25:40] International Students Six Ways to Spend a Mental Health Day. Well, that’s fun.

Dean Miles [00:25:44] Yeah, for.

Brilliant Miller [00:25:44] For some reason, I’m just going to throw this out there before we even jump in. Water comes to mind for me. Something about water? Mm-hmm. So I’ll be interested to see what that says and what you said and what this was Ed said. So let’s start with parenting.

Dean Miles [00:25:59] Okay?

Brilliant Miller [00:26:00] Okay. I had three things. I narrowed mine down to three things. Maybe four, actually. So the first thing that I said, if I’m looking for advice for fathers, is to be present.

Dean Miles [00:26:10] Yes, critically.

Brilliant Miller [00:26:11] But also, of course, intentionally or emotionally being present. I actually had dinner with a friend over the weekend and he shared with me a story about his mom passing unexpectedly two years ago. And he’s a busy, driven entrepreneur, very successful in our market here in Salt Lake, in real estate. And he said that now when he goes to his kid’s games, he said he used to be on the phone making deals and getting updates from his office and so forth. And he said, now he goes and he leaves us one in the car and he’s completely present. And losing his mom. It’s okay losing his mom for that to happen to him. But he has made that shift and now it doesn’t require willpower.

Dean Miles [00:26:49] So again.

Brilliant Miller [00:26:51] So that’s one for me. The next one that I see and I realize this one varies probably by age, depends on how young your kids are, how old they are. But I’ve said to have structure and routine in the home. And for us, that looks like dinner at six. Bedtime during the school year for the younger kids has been 8 p.m. and so forth. And I think for this I think this is part of the monastery method, and I wasn’t educated in that and I actually haven’t put our kids in it. But I did read the biography of Maria Montessori years ago.

Dean Miles [00:27:21] I’m very, very familiar.

Brilliant Miller [00:27:23] It’s so amazing just having the place for everything. And I think there’s something mentally when the physical space and the emotional space of home are organized and routine and logical, that that allows for people to flourish in ways that don’t exist. If, like, for example, punishments if you get in trouble one day because of your parent’s mood versus having broken one of the household rules. Establish rules, right? But that routine, that structure, in whatever form that makes sense for you, I think kids need that for their growth and flourishing.

Dean Miles [00:27:58] Totally agree. Yeah. So we, we homeschooled and by we, I mean my wife, a corporate girl, did not want to have children. Surprise, surprise. We end up having four children after the first two. My wife says I want to stay home and homeschool gets. I’m like, You’re drunk and what have you done with my wife? And she’s like, No, I can see I can figure this out. I can do this. And so he had some circumstances where that was a better choice than where we were in the environment we were in. And so Montessori Melanie kind of found early and we were a normal young family and some level of standardized chaos and being kind I’m sure it wasn’t standardized at all, but just chaos. And the Montessori kind of brought this idea of there’s a place and that started us on something that was more sustainable. And there’s no doubt that some of that has continued on and how we form our home. Right? Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:28:59] And then the last thing that I’ve said, so I said three being present physically, emotionally available, intentionally so forth to as routine predictability, structure, that kind of thing. And then the third thing that I said is to take care of yourself and in particular your sleep because of emotional regulation, right? I think of this a lot. My dad used to quote Vince Lombardi the saying that fatigue makes cowards of us. All right. Everything is harder when we’re tired and it’s harder to be present when we’re tired. It’s harder to not get upset. Right? We get upset more easily when we’re tired and things like this. And so.

Dean Miles [00:29:38] This.

Brilliant Miller [00:29:39] One lever.

Dean Miles [00:29:40] Of.

Brilliant Miller [00:29:41] Sleep being a thing that can allow us to emotionally regulate ourselves more easily is a thing that I would just suggest, you know, both to show up as a more effective, loving patient kind of parent, but also all the other benefits that it can have.

Dean Miles [00:29:58] Such a good one. I, I wrote my list. I’m quick I didn’t put that one on there. That is a great one. And you think about just younger parents. It’s that sleep is so elusive. Yeah. Yeah. But it is necessary, I mean, even to get a nap in. And if you’re not getting asleep, to be mindful of who I am, tired, I need some extra caution or margin here because I can come off hotter than necessary. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:30:25] Well, then what that points to too, and I realize it’s easy for me to sit here and say these things. And I do have kids. I have six.

Dean Miles [00:30:32] Kids. Yeah, yeah, I’ve met them. They’re awesome.

Brilliant Miller [00:30:34] So one thing to that, that I realized when I said advice for fathers, it didn’t even come up until you mention that is the importance of being on the same page with your co-parent.

Dean Miles [00:30:44] With that was.

Brilliant Miller [00:30:45] Including time alone like with that person and obviously, that’s not always easy, but whether that’s the grandparents or a babysitter or a trusted relative or something like that, to have that in something, this is maybe a bit controversial. But I think there’s a decision that is to be made and whether we make it consciously or not, which is whether you prioritize your partner or your spouse or the kids.

Dean Miles [00:31:10] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:31:11] And I would never I’d never occurred to me until my wife introduced that concept to me. And she talked about prioritizing the marriage, like the relationship of the parents.

Dean Miles [00:31:21] Yeah, there’s good research behind this. Now, another thing I can quote, but I’ve read it. I was introduced to it. We have four children and I like to experiment on them. So far, no, no major counseling because of this. But I would walk in the door. It would make a big deal because I mean, who greets you at the door? Usually, the dog, if you have one of those, they’re usually their first kids or second. And then that spouse is, you know, knee-deep in something. I would make a big deal of getting past them. Where’s that woman? Right. Where’s my wife? Where’s my girlfriend? And they’re screaming, No, say hi to me. Say hi to me. Because I want them to know she’s first. And so it became a big game. Right. And, you know, kids grab on to the leg, and they kind of ride your shoe. Right. Would do that. And those early years, I didn’t know to do that. We just had a good mentor in our lives early. And it made a big difference and they tied that back to bed wetting and tend to temper tantrums and everything else. That’s when the kids know that the mom and dad or the parents are well. The House as well. If they feel like their parents are not well. If we can’t talk it out, we start to act it up. Know.

Brilliant Miller [00:32:39] I think that’s true. I think that’s true. And again, I know that’s not universally accepted and somewhat perhaps controversial. And maybe I’m just thinking here in Utah, which I won’t go too deep into this.

Dean Miles [00:32:52] But yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:32:53] Many cultures, right? Encourages prioritization of the kids. And I think that seems like that’s the thing that’s going to promote well-being, but it ignores that container that you’re talking about. You’re not using that word, but that the relationship is that the family exists within or can. Right. I realize this is also very heteronormative.

Dean Miles [00:33:17] Yeah. Yeah. So but.

Brilliant Miller [00:33:18] So anyway. Okay, that’s that was what I thought or anything else from you about being a damn good dad before we left?

Dean Miles [00:33:25] Yeah. Yeah, the first. The first one that comes to mind and I’m getting ready to I’ve got a book maybe on this idea, I think a lot about this. A very good friend of mine, Dr. Ben Maxwell, is a pediatric adolescent psychiatrist in San Diego. And he and I have been talking you go back ten, 15 years ago and just how mental illness, mental health kind of came into some unprecedented numbers. Those millennials are now parents and their children are doing worse than they are. Six, seven, eight, nine years old coming in. an Unbelievable crowd. I mean, not groundbreaking was right there. Just devastating metrics of attempted suicide. Yeah, six, seven, eight, nine years old. So this idea of the role of the parents and the role of fathers to what you and I both first is to have a plan. Have a plan. So design the family that you love. So whether you’re a single parent or you’re co-parenting or whatever your situation is. Have a plan. Well, we’ve been asking parents, do you have a plan? It’s obvious because most of us don’t. Let’s just have a plan for each child. But have a plan. Second, be consistent. I mean, how hard is it for us adults to read our own boss or are they in a good mood or a bad mood? Right. And we feel at that. Don’t make your kids do that. Of choosing. Try and figure out if you’re in a good mood or not a good mood. Now be normal, but try to be consistent. Third, I got four. So the third is laugh, especially when things are not going well so that the Nashville airport. And they’ve got a big size a. Once you pass this, you’re going through like the baggage claim, once you pass this point, it’s the point of no return. Well, I think this young girl, probably 11, 12 years old, I think she’d go into the restroom. And she walked past that point so she couldn’t get back. So now mom’s at the Chick-Fil-A counter getting the meal dad sitting with like the four-year-old brother gets the the the phone call from her. They can see through the glass and he loses it now. Now, what could he have? He could have just gone past there and said, hilarious. Right. Nice work. All the signage, all the stops. Don’t go. It’s all good, right? Could have. Instead, humiliated, and embarrassed. Cursing her out. I’m like, dude, I got a 25 year old daughter. And because I’ve done things like that way back when, if I could have done that different. Laugh, laugh, laugh, laugh. And then the last one is to tell your kids from the husband the father’s perspective of, hey, you know what? You’re good at this. Mm-hmm. Unbelievable the impact. And the more detailed as possible. So my youngest son, who’s 18 now, was the youngest. So he kind of got the crappiest of the chores. Right. And because he was the last one, Reed would go take out the trash, but I would notice he would pay attention to the details. So instead of saying, hey, you’re good at taking out the trash, that’s something you don’t be complimented on that I would say read. You know what you’re good at? You pay attention to details. Hmm. And he was right. Kids make this stuff up. He was? Yeah. But him getting that recognition. Encouragement from dad. You went to a whole time period of he was just a detail dude. Now. Right on. Yeah, I love those. Love the topic. Well, as you can tell and.

Brilliant Miller [00:37:05] What you’re sharing, too, I just came across a quotation today that is right in line with this. It says People become what they expect themselves to become. That was Gandhi. And in that idea of if you’re positively reinforcing and it’s you’re not making it up, but you just notice. Right.

Dean Miles [00:37:23] And yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:37:24] Help your kids.

Dean Miles [00:37:27] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:37:27] Believe that they’re something and then they’ll more likely to become that thing.

Dean Miles [00:37:31] Cool.

Brilliant Miller [00:37:32] Okay. So I’ll be honest, I read these pages and I think that was another one of these that was kind of a bait and switch because this was not. This was not a simple test of here’s great advice for parents, but in about the 12 pages that were here, there were a few things that I want to call out here. There’s a little piece by a writer named Jeff Gardner that comes under the heading. Is it okay not to like my kids? Sometimes. And he says, I have four children ranging in age from 19 to 4. Here’s something I have learned about parenting. No matter how open-minded you think you are, your kids will throw you curveballs that undermine your fixed ideas about the world. And then he goes on to talk about how sometimes he’s bewildered by them. And it’s, you know, basically, it’s okay to have feelings, you know, you don’t need to express them or even act them out. But you’re not going to like every moment of every day being a parent, that’s par for the course. You know, that’s to be expected.

Dean Miles [00:38:29] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:38:30] And the.

Dean Miles [00:38:30] More.

Brilliant Miller [00:38:31] I think mature wise among us can use that as an opportunity for learning or growth or.

Dean Miles [00:38:38] Being more capable. I mean, I like that because life is real. And especially as the kids get older, they form opinions. I mean, based on their life experience. I’ll give you an example. The Hindenburg, right? I’m sure most of us have seen that footage of it exploding and we hear that. VOICEOVER Oh, the humanity. You’ve seen this. You’ve seen it, right? Yeah, I can watch that. Yeah. The black and white film. Yeah. And then go right and straight and go watch a happy movie or go, you know, get some chicken nuggets. I mean, I can watch that and go, right, something else. So 911, we were taking a tour of another museum there in New York City. And I’m coming undone. Just absolutely undone. Walking through this place like just an uncontrollable sobbing mess. But for my kids, that was the hint. They weren’t either. Two of them were old enough to remember. And until I’m one of them. Born yet. Mm-hmm. Now, I could get really upset about that. And they were different opinions. I know what we did as a country after 911. It was my expressing our country come together as I’d never experienced before. Now clearly hasn’t lasted. But I saw us come together. Our kids. My kids have never seen the US come together. So when Reagan says the worst words you could ever hear is, I’m from the government and I’m here to help. Yeah, my kid’s experience is the best word you can hear is I’m from the government and I’m here to help. Yeah. And we’re both right. Based on what historically has happened in our lifetime.

Brilliant Miller [00:40:16] In our own lived experience.

Dean Miles [00:40:17] Yes. And so I’ve had to grow in this with we’re all on this journey. Yeah. And we love each other. Yeah. Or we can for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:40:31] Yeah. Then and then here was a piece that is. A guy named Renaldo Pina is a football coach at Northwest High in Clarksville, Tennessee. He served for 13 years in the Army, rising to staff sergeant, and deploying twice to Iraq. And it was, can I connect with my kids when duty calls? So maybe for parents that are separated by distance or the nature of their job and. A big part of this just begins with making sure they understand why you had to go away. Yeah, you know, and obviously that’s going to come at a certain age and so forth. But.

Dean Miles [00:41:06] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:41:07] That was one. One little tidbit that I took away from this. And then the last thing that was in here is it was a question. It was toward the end, it was the beheading on this show by a writer named Mark O’Connell. Is is it even moral to have a kid in today’s unhinged world?

Dean Miles [00:41:24] Oh, my gosh.

Brilliant Miller [00:41:25] So exploring that and then it quotes the magazine here, quotes that one in four people without kids say that climate change is a reason they don’t have them. And then Mark, I guess, has written a book called Notes from an Apocalypse, which I’ll definitely give it to that. But I thought that was an interesting question. Is it even moral to have kids in today’s unhinged world? And I think we all have our opinion about that. But what do you say?

Dean Miles [00:41:53] Well, gosh, it takes me all over the place. I mean, I just did the 23 and me. Oh, yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:42:01] Did you find anything surprising? Come up.

Dean Miles [00:42:04] I got 1% Jewish. So, Shabbat shalom. I got a lot of German. Irish. Like 89%. Didn’t know I had that much Irish. Some Scandinavians were Congolese. But when you when you trace this back, especially on the Jewish side, that particular. I can’t really make up the language, but that particular segment of my DNA structure goes back to four women. Well. I could only imagine how crappy that existence was. I’m glad they chose to have a child. Yeah. I mean, I think historically along the way, it’s life is hard and it’s unfair and that’s just trivializing and undermining how real those words are. But I’m so thankful for that. That people are still loving each other and procreate. Yeah. And hopefully, we’re getting it right more than we’re getting it wrong. But I mean, what if you’re not if you’re not sending your kids out there and you’re thinking good thoughts like that, then we’re procreating. Maybe the wrong gene structures. Well, yeah, I get lots of them.

Brilliant Miller [00:43:25] No, that’s another. Yeah, there’s another potentially charged question. Right. And one that each of us gets to answer for our own if we’re even able to. I know, you know, I have friends like I do that aren’t able to have kids. And meanwhile. There are people that I wish wouldn’t have kids that have plenty of no kidding.

Dean Miles [00:43:44] So always I hear you. Like Melanie wasn’t supposed to have children. Severe enemy endometriosis had to be a procedure done. And they said, nope, when I have kids. And we were like, We’re conducted by that. And like about ten months later, we’re pregnant with Zach. I mean, we were shocked and then end up with four unplanned Eva. That’s why I had to go see a doctor immediately. I’m, like, not know what we’re doing. Well, we cannot be trusted.

Brilliant Miller [00:44:13] I don’t think anybody knows what they’re doing when they begin being parents. But, you know, my answer, my take on this question is.

Dean Miles [00:44:21] I.

Brilliant Miller [00:44:21] Remember reading once a book about it. It was a book that had an essay about overpopulation.

Dean Miles [00:44:28] And.

Brilliant Miller [00:44:29] About the consequences and the timetable and, you know, this kind of thing. And it was one of these kinds of books that presents the pros and cons and so forth, the different the different information and attitudes that exist out there from social research and so forth. And, and one of the takes, and I forget the name of it. Now, somebody listening probably knows this, but there was a theory that is expounded that says for any problem that exists within a population, the solution to that problem will be found by someone from within it. And it’s for that reason that even though overpopulation clearly has a toll on our planet itself and on our society, ultimately the odds of us finding it increased by every one of us that arrives.

Dean Miles [00:45:19] So yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:45:20] So it was the argument in that essay was that it’s a moral imperative to continue having children, which, you know, I know that’s just one view. I don’t know that that’s true. But I do think about something Buckminster Fuller talked about, which is the emergence of an emergency. Yes, the history of humanity seems to only be we find the solution to our problem when it becomes essential to our survival to do so.

Dean Miles [00:45:42] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:45:42] And so to me, it’s kind of like if we choose not to have kids or we choose to have kids, somehow when we’re faced with this existential threat, we will solve it. So that brings us maybe back to where we started, which is nowhere about individual choice.

Dean Miles [00:45:57] Yeah, it is. And there’s always a line taking us to Mars. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:46:02] I’m not going with that guy. But I’ll tell you.

Dean Miles [00:46:04] I shoot a different topic for a different day.

Brilliant Miller [00:46:09] Yes. Okay. Switching gears, let’s talk about the wisdom of your pages.

Dean Miles [00:46:13] International Students Six Ways to Spend a Mental Health Day The Most. My mind went first to. Was that? Was that even me? Yeah, right. A mental health day.

Brilliant Miller [00:46:28] I kind of. I kind of don’t like that idea already.

Dean Miles [00:46:31] As a.

Brilliant Miller [00:46:32] Like I’m kind of like and I, I go both ways on this, too, because there’s a part of me that goes like, if you need a vacation, maybe you ought to organize your life in a way that doesn’t require vacations. I know. That’s again, that’s easy, right? For someone like me to say.

Dean Miles [00:46:46] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:46:46] But in this mental health day, I mean, I just remember hearing. There was a friend of mine who had an employee who had a breakup with a girlfriend or her boyfriend and said she needed two weeks. I need two weeks to get in. It’s like. Really. So the whole thing is, do you need a mental health day or do you need to organize your life in a way that you don’t need a mental health day? But anyway.

Dean Miles [00:47:11] That’s snow. So since getting this article. Because I’ve had it for a week now. I’ve been asking people this question and. Brilliant. It’s a charged question. So from you. I don’t even like it already. Right. To other groups, I say groups are making the sounds too large. Other individuals are saying it’s about time. Mhm. And I was like ooh say more like where are you coming from. So I’m trying to find is there. Can I, can I guess how you’re going to answer based on your age, based on your geography, based on your financial well-being? I can I. Are there any predictors of how we respond to this question? Of a well of a wellness day.

Brilliant Miller [00:48:02] Oh, for sure there will be.

Dean Miles [00:48:04] Right. Well, yeah, so I’m already finding it. But as soon as I find it, someone else shows up differently than I wasn’t expecting. And it just it kind of depends on how much they’ve thought about this. It also depends on where you have been, especially with for the professional mindset of in the organization, whether you are the owner or the employee. Sure. If you were in leadership or if you were hourly. And I can almost predict those because we go to where it’s been abused as opposed to where it’s been a wise application. So I went into this, you know, there’s, there’s mental illness and there’s mental health and sometimes we’re using that synonymously. Yep.

Brilliant Miller [00:48:44] And I think they are very different.

Dean Miles [00:48:46] They are for sure different. So then I started thinking about where it appeared in the United States. When did this first get talked about? And it was 18. We sold. 1843 after the Civil War by William Sweet, sir.

Brilliant Miller [00:49:08] The Civil War wasn’t till the 1860s.

Dean Miles [00:49:13] You’re right. I read that incorrectly. So it was first used by William Sweetser in 1943, and then after the Civil War, which increased the concern about the effects of unsanitary conditions. And he called it mental hygiene.

Brilliant Miller [00:49:31] I actually like that term.

Dean Miles [00:49:33] I think that what I’ve seen other articles since I think that’s where it’s going to come to. I really do because we need to we need a do-over when it comes to this. That mental illness and mental health is not the same. Because when we talk about financial health, I’m sure you’ve over your lifetime, probably even when you were super young, started having conversations around your table about mental health illness. I’m not mental. Financial wellness. Financial health. You talk about financial illness. No. No. Probably not as much. But I think they’re just intellectual, environmental, occupational, and physical health. I mean, we’re all about it. We’re all about. I mean, people will take a day off because they’re doing some things for their physical health. They’re going to go in a marathon or they’re going to go do this. I’m taking the day off and we’ll go for a hike for my physical health. They will not see it that way. Yes. A mental health. So yeah. So the title again, I go outside, and then I’m going to rephrase it. Six Ways to two is meant to spin a mental health day. I’d in my mind, want to go ahead.

Brilliant Miller [00:50:47] I’m just going to jump in and say if there are not relationship-based things friends, loved ones, and maybe animals. And then then I then I’m already calling this article bunk.

Dean Miles [00:50:57] One.

Brilliant Miller [00:50:59] And another. And this one I don’t feel strongly about if it’s on the list, but for some reason, it comes up for me. I’m going back to the water or something around swimming in the ocean if it’s available, even taking a bath, going to a sauna, something like that. So I’m curious what was on your list and what’s.

Dean Miles [00:51:13] Yeah, so I’m on my list. My mind went to there’s mental you could do a mental health weekend. Yeah. You could do a mental health morning. You can do a mental health moment. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a day in the middle of your work day where you’re not transferring additional responsibilities or burdens on the rest of your team or your organization or the company that you work for. Sure. All right.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:38] So I’m going to interject one last thing, which is niche greenery in every class in a city.

Dean Miles [00:51:45] It’s a model of how this topic has you so leaning forward.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:49] Because, I mean, these things are not they’re simple, not easy. I think.

Dean Miles [00:51:53] Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:53] They are effective. And research shows this.

Dean Miles [00:51:56] Like.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:56] Good living. It’s not complicated, but I’m eager to quit interrupting, you know?

Dean Miles [00:52:00] See, I chose to pause. Not producer, not because you picked a topic that’s at my core parenting and being single. And I’ve picked a topic that is at your core, this idea of good living and not just a mental health day, but a mental health life. Yeah, right. So I like. So my first one was to do nothing, right? Just like, like in this sick day and just get on the couch, pull up the Afghan, put on a dumb movie, just turn the brain off. Just chill. Yeah, that’s one that came to mind. One is no electronics if you’re going to do this for a day. Um, turn to just turn or turn them all off for 24 hours. Have a specific goal. Otherwise. I think you can’t just wander through this day and not fully maximize it. I put to nature. Get into nature. I think my wife’s going to go with her master’s and. I’m going to butcher this brilliant. But I told her that you’re gonna be excited about it. Is something about authors. Being an author based in nature. Mm-hmm. And there’s a master’s degree in this. Wow. Cool. Yeah. So that’s interesting. So that’s. So that and then find meaning. Right. To spend the day just being reflective and searching for meaning. Could be a good mental health day. So that’s what was on my list. What comes to your mind?

Brilliant Miller [00:53:39] Right on those three connection? Friends, family, loved ones, you know, pets especially maybe the connections that we’ve. The word I would use is kind of let deteriorate or let languish. You know, and part of this maybe comes from watching my dad and his last days call people that he loved that he didn’t necessarily associate with regularly. And just how tender those calls were of, hey, I’m on my way out, you know? And they’d have those fine moments of reminiscing and not leaving that until the very end. So that’s one. And the research shows just how important relationships are to our overall happiness and well-being. You know, there’s that one study. I think there’s an 80-year study out of Harvard that shows it’s the biggest predictor. Right. You know, and and it increases longevity, not just the quality of life, but actually the length of our lives and so forth. So that’s where immediately relationships come up. And then similarly, the thing about nature, regardless of what our spiritual or religious views are, that research shows that being in nature especially, we can become immersed by it, be in a mountain, be and, you know, just a beautiful place, especially if it’s far from development, this kind of thing that we all have these or we have the possibility then of having this kind of transcendent experiences that help us remember how small we are and how big existence is, and that we’re a part of it and, you know, this kind of thing. So that’s why that one comes up. And then for me personally, even though I don’t get in the water a lot, to be honest, when I do, I am. I love it and it can feel so just rejuvenating.

Dean Miles [00:55:18] Yeah. I’m with you on that. You made me think about it once. The last time you’ve gazed at the stars.

Brilliant Miller [00:55:26] That I did. I did earlier this summer. And I’m a little bit ashamed to say it was a week ago. But. I was somewhere where there wasn’t a lot of light pollution and it was easy to see them and that. But then through a screen, I’ve been fascinated by this new James Webb telescope.

Dean Miles [00:55:42] Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah. Yeah. So Melanie said when we were doing the two and a half years in the RV, we got we went to a what’s considered one of the top five, and it’s over in Bar Harbor, over in Maine. I’m drawing a blank on the national park that this is. But you can see the Milky Way just with the natural ah and so to lay on the grass, especially with someone that you love to lay on the grass and just stare out. You’re. You’re just so insignificant. That’s one. And the second, I’m just in awe of those previous generations that were so amazingly aware. They did this so frequently. They saw the most subtle changes and were able to discover so much about our solar system just through those visual observations which also makes me feel insignificant and shallow. Yeah. So. And their list. First, they kind of go into it’s a day off to prioritize your mental health and well-being. So think of it as a necessity, not a reward. So I like that. I mean, you don’t go work out because you’ve earned the right to go work out right. It’s a necessity. And sort of think about our mental hygiene. Right. You know, brush your teeth because you’ve earned the right to do that. This reward, you know, you are a good boy today. You get to brush your teeth and they can talk about, you know, is it okay to do this? And it’s absolutely. Now, you do need to be aware of, you know, this could cause some distress within your coworkers. So the first one is just to decide what you need out of your mental health day. I like that.

Brilliant Miller [00:57:31] Yeah. It’s like living the examined life. You’re asking right there. What do I want or need from this day? That makes perfect sense. I, I think it’s. I think it’s solid.

Dean Miles [00:57:41] The second one is just simply to have a day off. Yep. It doesn’t mean that you have to catch up on chores as laundry, or whatever else. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just rest. I like that there were three choose a hobby. Do you have a hobby? I mean, you go for walks.

Brilliant Miller [00:58:02] I love to read.

Dean Miles [00:58:03] Yeah, that’s a good hobby. I like.

Brilliant Miller [00:58:04] To play games.

Dean Miles [00:58:06] That they’re exactly right. Yeah. So you have that. There were four. Spend time with your loved ones. And I’ve been at your house at 6:00 in the evening. And as you said, you don’t always know who else is going to be there. Yeah. Right. Because your kids kind of invite their other friends and. But it’s a place to belong, right? It’s a place just to be. Yeah. Yeah. And connect. And connect. Number five, do an activity that brings you peace. I like that. I also think about you guys and your puzzles. Yep. I did ask your kids, if anyone, to hide the last piece so they can be the one. And they looked at me just mortified, like, why would someone what kind of.

Brilliant Miller [00:58:53] Monster do you think I.

Dean Miles [00:58:54] Am now? So I may have introduced some badness into your house. And then six to reevaluate your goals and priorities. So just reflecting on your life can help you ask more meaningful questions. And unfortunately, there’s no nothing about water. Hmm. I apologize. Now, then, I’ll write them.

Brilliant Miller [00:59:18] I am a little surprised going through the list that there’s not anything explicitly about physical activity. But you know, maybe that comes up for some when they go through. What do they want or need out of this day?

Dean Miles [00:59:30] What I was interested about does it make sense to me, is that this is a magazine for international students.

Brilliant Miller [00:59:38] Yeah, that’s interesting.

Dean Miles [00:59:39] I thought there’d be something about, you know, connecting back home or bringing in your culture into your reality or, you know, loneliness. I thought there’d be something more about this. The uniqueness of being an international student and. There was none of those little insights. Okay. Mental health. Mental hygiene. Mental illness. It’s a great conversation to get in with those around your group because we can do better for sure on this topic.

Brilliant Miller [01:00:10] Yeah, I.

Dean Miles [01:00:10] Agree.

Brilliant Miller [01:00:11] I totally agree. Okay. Well, thanks for bringing that to the wisdom of the pages.

Dean Miles [01:00:18] Perfect.

Brilliant Miller [01:00:19] So, all right, then what’s left? Let’s have a discussion. Just a few words about it. What? Be a great coach. Something that can help us be great coaches. Something that can help us earn recognition and money. Yeah. So I brought an idea for each of those. I can start us off.

Dean Miles [01:00:39] Yeah, I have an idea for one of them.

Brilliant Miller [01:00:41] Okay. So my idea is related to being a great coach. So tactical thing. It’s a skill called bottom lining.

Dean Miles [01:00:52] Mm-hmm.

Brilliant Miller [01:00:53] Right. So when a client, they come up, you’ve done the work of what’s your outcome? What is it that you really want in the situation? What matters most, is that kind of thing. Right. It’s all good coaches are doing making sure where we’re not just having a conversation with friends. There’s a time and a place for that. But a coaching session, is not it? It’s not to make a client feel good. It’s to help them be a certain person, live a certain kind of life, and produce a certain result. So we’ve done all that work. And then as the story is unfolding, the explanation. Right. Sometimes we’re deceiving our clients by listening to that again sometimes.

Dean Miles [01:01:27] And being.

Brilliant Miller [01:01:28] Able with skill and grace as best we can, being guided by our intuition and a spirit of service to our client. Bottom line. Let me interrupt you there. Let me ask you something. What’s the real issue here for you? It’s getting to the heart of the thing and again, recognizing that there can be a time and a place when you’re actually serving someone by interrupting them and that there is such a skill called a bottom line. So the bottom line is for me, what’s the real issue here?

Dean Miles [01:01:54] I like that. What’s the real challenge?

Brilliant Miller [01:01:55] Yeah, what’s the real challenge? And then I do like and I think this is Michael Bungay senior.

Dean Miles [01:02:00] In.

Brilliant Miller [01:02:01] The coaching.

Dean Miles [01:02:01] Habit talking.

Brilliant Miller [01:02:02] About for you. Right. Because there’s only so much in this universe we can control, if anything. But framing it is not just what’s the real issue, but what’s the real issue here for you.

Dean Miles [01:02:13] Yes. Right.

Brilliant Miller [01:02:14] So there’s a lot in that, I think. But I’m going to leave it at that bottom line. It’s a skill that often involves interrupting and then framing with a very specific question, something very much like and maybe the exact words, what’s the real issue here for you?

Dean Miles [01:02:29] I like that very, very much. I think about my coach certification process. They had us. A practice that. And depending on how you were raised, some of us are better at that. Some of us, right? Interrupting normal conversations way too often. And some of us are just way too polite and make conversations. We let people just drone on and on and on. This is a coaching conversation right as you’ve been set up. So I would encourage you, if you’re a newer coach, to practice this. Yeah, practice it.

Brilliant Miller [01:03:01] Right. And by the way, one thing there that can help that. Right, which is another coaching skill.

Dean Miles [01:03:06] Of asking.

Brilliant Miller [01:03:08] Permission and being able to do that either at the beginning of the conversation. At the beginning of the coaching engagement, maybe right then. But do you mind if I pause you there?

Dean Miles [01:03:17] Right, like asking.

Brilliant Miller [01:03:19] The client’s permission to be able to do that. And then I’ll just share that. This is something, too, that came up for me in that book I mentioned at the beginning, Ralph de la Rosa, about Don’t Tell Me to Relax. He talks about the difference between being nice and being kind. And when we’re nice, when we’re just saying what’s expedient, when we’re not honoring our inner voice like this, we might be being nice in an attempt to avoid hurting someone else’s feelings or avoid being uncomfortable ourselves. But there’s a difference between being nice. Being kind of nice often doesn’t serve our client, or we can be kind. We can ask these tough questions with compassion.

Dean Miles [01:03:51] Yes.

Brilliant Miller [01:03:52] I think there’s there’s something worth remembering in the difference between being nice, and being kind.

Dean Miles [01:03:58] And that’s money. They’re brilliant. Nice work.

Brilliant Miller [01:04:00] Well, that’s Ralph. Ralph de la Rosa.

Dean Miles [01:04:02] Nice work, Ralph. Yes. Okay.

Brilliant Miller [01:04:05] I was coaching the thing you had won about or was it about recognition of money?

Dean Miles [01:04:10] This one, I think. Is an umbrella over each of them?

Brilliant Miller [01:04:15] Okay, cool.

Dean Miles [01:04:16] So there are 74 of us in this room. I’m going back to the Nashville weekend that we were talking about the Marshal Watson with 100 coaches. And he asked this question when it comes to selling. Do you think you oversell or do you think you undersell? Those are the only two options. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [01:04:38] It’s a leading question, but that’s okay.

Dean Miles [01:04:40] We’ll go with 75%, if not more.

Brilliant Miller [01:04:44] Undersell said.

Dean Miles [01:04:45] Undersell. Yeah. Why did you know the answer to that?

Brilliant Miller [01:04:49] Well, again, I mean, a lot of it is coaches, people who are drawn to coaching don’t typically see themselves as salespeople. Sales and marketing are often gaudy, you know, unpleasant realities for other people. And so that doesn’t surprise me at all.

Dean Miles [01:05:06] Yeah. One of Lisa McLeod. Who is in the M.G. 100 whose specialization is selling with a noble purpose, has done amazing things with large sales organizations. She’s offered for the Four Marshals Group to do a workshop on this. But she said, if you’re doing good things, which I would imagine most of the coaches are listening to this are, then you have a moral obligation. To let people know what you are able to do and. They got Marshall’s attention. They got my attention. I really think about that. I mean, you hear about the moral obligation not to have kids. Right now, here’s a moral obligation to.

Brilliant Miller [01:05:53] Sell your coaching.

Dean Miles [01:05:54] To sell your coaching if you’re doing good things. Then people need to know about it. So with that being said. Oversell it. I mean, let that be your goal. My guess is you’re not even going to get close to being the obnoxious person that you don’t admire. No, but you’re way too far on the other side of the spectrum to be a better coach. If you want to have recognition if you want to make more money because those things are important. Get out of that undersell category.

Brilliant Miller [01:06:30] No, I think I think that sound.

Dean Miles [01:06:32] And my.

Brilliant Miller [01:06:33] View on this, at least part of my view on this is that there’s a whole shift in our orientation. Right, that is because if we think of marketing as an activity, like if we think of it as a to-do list item, then we never really get around to it. I mean, yeah, we might launch a new website or we might start an email campaign or something like that. But I think if we really embrace this idea that we have a gift to share with the world. And in fact, I just saw a cool thing online.

Dean Miles [01:07:00] That.

Brilliant Miller [01:07:00] I found it because of Ralph’s book. He quotes another thought leader in the area of social media, a guy named Aaron Rose, who Aaron had a post on his Instagram that says, Why bother? Because right now there is someone out there with a wound in the exact shape of your words. Right. And whether that’s true or not, I don’t know whether that’s empowering. It can be if we choose. If I have the medicine, I have the message that someone needs to hear for their healing or their growth. And then. And that we’re not looking. We’re not looking to share that because we’re marketing it. But we’re looking to connect. We’re looking to serve. And I think making that orientation, that shift of saying, you know, when people say, well, what do you do? Well, I’m a coach. Right. And it’s what do you do? Well, I mean, I know one coach who will say I help souls heal, and that’s a little poetic. It’s okay. Well, how do you do that? And, you know, people ask us forth, but I think that people, you know, and Marshall will say, I successful people achieve lasting behavioral change. It’s not like coach people. I coach executives. You can say that.

Dean Miles [01:08:04] Right.

Brilliant Miller [01:08:04] It changes to what’s the result you deliver and who do you do it for?

Dean Miles [01:08:08] Yeah, I. I inspire insight and shift perspectives that have real meaning. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [01:08:14] It’s beautiful. And for the people there. That’s right for their like, tell me more.

Dean Miles [01:08:18] You know, how do you do that?

Brilliant Miller [01:08:20] Or how does it work? You know.

Dean Miles [01:08:22] Yes.

Brilliant Miller [01:08:24] So I think, I think does sound anything more on that. And Lisa McLeod or any of these others.

Dean Miles [01:08:29] Like you can look up her book, The Noble Purpose, it’s really, really, really good. She’s passionate about this topic. And particularly within the space, of thought leaders and influencers to be it. I mean, think about just the dichotomy of this, the idiocy of this, to be a thought leader, to be an influencer, and the undersell. It just doesn’t make any sense.

Brilliant Miller [01:08:59] No, it doesn’t make sense. But one thing that does make sense to me perfectly.

Dean Miles [01:09:04] Is.

Brilliant Miller [01:09:04] This idea is that we all simultaneously want to be seen and recognized and appreciated, but we also fear exposing ourselves. So there’s this natural tendency to want to be visible, but also to want to remain invisible.

Dean Miles [01:09:18] Yeah. And I think that’s those three words. So humility. Courage and discipline. And when you apply those three, I think they balance each other very, very nicely.

Brilliant Miller [01:09:33] Yeah, I think you’re right. And I did Google Lisa’s book. Very. And see this condition, maybe it’s a description of the book. Very good selling with noble purpose, how to drive revenue and do work that makes you proud. By Lisa Earl McLeod and EOD.

Dean Miles [01:09:49] Yeah. Cool. Really good.

Brilliant Miller [01:09:51] The thing that I have for this to help you as a coach earn recognition and money is an idea. Oh, my goodness. I don’t have the book with me. I’m going to Google it if I can. Yeah, it’s a book called Book Yourself Solid by someone named Michael Port. Some of the information in it now is a little dated, but I read this a few years ago and it had an idea that I have implemented and it has served me. It has helped me find clients. It’s helped me to learn and grow and to enjoy life and hopefully serve some people. And the idea is this and I forget the way Michael words this, but he says basically always be inviting people to something. Now, as I say that out loud, I hear the network marketer and it’s not, you know, network marketing, but as an example.

Dean Miles [01:10:39] Right.

Brilliant Miller [01:10:40] A book club, a meditation group, a running circle. Write a discussion group, a cooking club, something where you’re convening people. So what that does is that adds value. They’re learning something. They’re meeting other people and probably like-minded people. We could all use more friends and allies and collaborators, supporters. So that’s one thing. And then two is it’s a chance for you to demonstrate your authority and your leadership, that thing you might be inviting people to as a newsletter, you know, but having something. So when you talk to people, it’s a chance for connection because most people, especially for the services we offer, they’re not most people are not ready today. They’re not ready the first time they meet you or hear of your truth. And they do want to like and know and trust you and have something that you’re inviting them to. It could be a podcast. Subscribe to the podcast, and listen to this. But that idea of consciously having something and then inviting people to it.

Dean Miles [01:11:38] That’s good, right? You just challenged me. I know that you have that and several different expressions of things that you on Wednesday mornings. And speaking in mindfulness, I don’t have anything like that. You just challenge me to to be more intentional with I’m real quick to invite people to a meal.

Brilliant Miller [01:11:55] Well, that’s something.

Dean Miles [01:11:56] You know, and I like that very much, but I don’t have something that’s more specific than that.

Brilliant Miller [01:12:01] Well, you are working one week a month then. So you’re doing something that many of us wish we were doing already.

Dean Miles [01:12:08] These are very good meals that I invite people to share.

Brilliant Miller [01:12:13] I’m sure. But again, that’s Michael Porte and he has a book. The book is so solid. I think it has.

Dean Miles [01:12:17] A lot of.

Brilliant Miller [01:12:18] Great insight in it, like.

Dean Miles [01:12:20] When you see his date or not because he could tell me to pick up my BlackBerry.

Brilliant Miller [01:12:24] He might be in the old in.

Dean Miles [01:12:25] I’m getting.

Brilliant Miller [01:12:26] It is Maxim on eBay. I just Googled it and they found it on eBay. But I know he’s got other books on Amazon. So yeah, that was a little tidbit about earned recognition of money stuff. Well, Dean, that brings us to the conclusion of another edition of the coach’s commonplace book, What was most valuable for you here in our Time Together Today?

Dean Miles [01:12:51] I like the fact that something like Esquire magazine is posing the questions of wisdom for fathers. Mm-hmm. So even though not all of those resonated with me, to see that in that type of publication, that’s a great start. So that encourages me. That’s one. The second is. So remind me that you can be. You can be nice or you’re not being nice versus being kind. Yeah, that’s really, really good. I want to look for more opportunities of where I’m doing that well and where I could do that better. And then the third thing is, I really do want to think about what I can be inviting people to. So whether that’s the blog, whether that’s a podcast, I don’t have a newsletter. I really do need something like that. And I want to hopefully by the time we do this, next time I have a better answer. What about you?

Brilliant Miller [01:13:46] Yeah. And then we’ll invite people to it. I would say. But you know, what was valuable for me here in our time was it was the interaction with you to justify spending a little over an hour with you having a reason to give some structure and expression to thoughts that, you know, go through my head as I’m at home or in the yard or whatever. I’m grateful for that. I do hope that this finds someone and serves them in some way. But even if it doesn’t add value for me.

Dean Miles [01:14:18] It’s exactly right.

Brilliant Miller [01:14:19] And then in what you said earlier about your time in Nashville, that idea, we didn’t explore it much when you talked about it, but it’s really congruent with something else. I’m learning from Eastern traditions about basically renouncing the fruits of your labor, not like divorcing your actions from the results that they produce, and just doing it because it’s an expression of your highest self or because you want to or you know something. I think there’s actually a really deep lesson in that. And I was grateful to just to hear that again in what you shared today.

Dean Miles [01:14:53] Yeah. Thank you for saying that.

Brilliant Miller [01:14:56] Okay. Well, just a reminder, I know people will have seen this on the wherever they found this on Spotify or on.

Dean Miles [01:15:03] Apple.

Brilliant Miller [01:15:05] In the. What are they? I don’t know what they call it anymore, Apple podcasts. But if people want to learn more from you or they want to connect with you, where can they find you? Can they find you on LinkedIn?

Dean Miles [01:15:15] LinkedIn for sure. That’s where I’m probably the most active and most responsive, and I post nearly every day with amazing insights. So.

Brilliant Miller [01:15:23] Dean Miles.

Dean Miles [01:15:24] Dean Miles. Yeah. You can find me on LinkedIn by that. And then you can go to our website Bridgepoint CSG for Coaching Strategy groups of BridgepointCSGcom.

Brilliant Miller [01:15:34] Awesome. And then people can find me at good living dot com can email me. Brilliant because of income. All right. Well, thanks for listening, everyone. We’ll do this again in a month or so.

Dean Miles [01:15:46] Great. Thanks, Brilliant.

Brilliant Miller [01:15:47] Be well. Thank you, Dean.