Podcast Episode 14
Discover the Purpose of Time

CCP14_Final_Audio.mp3

Brilliant Miller [00:00:00] But you say, where are you going to be Like, you’re going to be somewhere unless you’re dead or you’ve found a way to leave the planet on the morning, you’re going to be somewhere.

Dean Miles [00:00:08] All right.

Brilliant Miller [00:00:09] And you going to be doing something. And if you get right down to it, you’re going to be the one who chose that. Mr. Dean. Miles, so good to see you.

Dean Miles [00:00:20] Brilliant, Miller. I look forward to these.

Brilliant Miller [00:00:23] I do, too. Another episode of The Coach’s Commonplace podcast, where we explore a few different questions related to what does it mean to live a good life? What does it mean to be a great coach? What does it mean to earn recognition of money? And of course, how can we do those things? So with that in mind, we are, as we often do, we start with an info diet. What have you been consuming? Watching, Listening to reading? What’s been part of your information diet? You info for it?

Dean Miles [00:00:53] I have so a book that I have that won’t be released until September. Written by Scott Osmond, Jaclyn Lane and our friend Marsha Goldsmith. Becoming coachable. So as part of this, I’m listed in this, but I’ve just have slowed down this time. So not with an editing mind, but just a consuming mind. A really paying attention to what does it really, truly mean? To become coachable.

Brilliant Miller [00:01:26] Is this is this one of these books? Like if you if someone gives you this book, it’s like somebody offers you a stick of gum. Like, do I need this? Are you telling me I’m close minded or I’m hardheaded or what?

Dean Miles [00:01:40] Yes. I’m always I’m a believer of that. That’s the first thought. Then that’s probably what it is. But yes, and I’ve been in the coaching space for coming up on 20 years now. I have a coach. There’s no doubt that I’m still becoming coachable. There’s still parts that I don’t want to admit. There’s still parts I don’t give my best effort. There’s still parts where I prefer intensity over consistency. That master level is elusive. I’m hoping you’re trying to tell your story. Brilliant. Just how many? How many balls you’ve chased around the around the greens of Salt Lake City and the rest of the planet. There’s reading it and there’s knowing it, and then there’s doing it. And those are just not the same categories.

Brilliant Miller [00:02:33] They’re not the same. And I’ve heard it said that in theory there’s no difference between theory and practice. But in practice there is.

Dean Miles [00:02:41] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Wise words. So that’s been that’s been good to go back over then. I’ve also. Been exploring this idea of systems such as management systems. Going back to early 17th century. Those systems were basically you either were and you inherited it or you go and kill everybody and take it to the 18th, 19th century, to the industrial, the 19th or 1890, where we’re kind of going through this alignment and we’re really starting to paying attention to human beings. And then the industrial age came and we forgot about those human beings and everything became mechanical. Yeah. Into this comment of some say it came from the Ford assembly line. Plants are being jerked around at work. So we were jerked these human beings from one part of the assembly line to another part assembly line, and now late 20th, early 21st century. We’re back to this people oriented systems. And so I’ve been Googling and going to Google Scholar and just trying to find what peer reviewed type stuff can I find the science based on systems that are actually working.

Brilliant Miller [00:03:59] And what have you found?

Dean Miles [00:04:01] Well, here’s what they all end with this last paragraph. We’re convinced that it works. We have the data in science to show that it works. We’re just still not quite sure of how do you actually execute it daily.

Brilliant Miller [00:04:19] You talk about like people oriented systems. Yes. Yeah, that’s interesting. A couple places my mind goes, and I don’t know if it’s related in any way, but it’s this idea of at least attempting to do things differently from the way they seem to be done broadly in our capitalistic consumerist corporate society. One is you two gentlemen on my podcast couple of years ago, Stefan our style, who wrote a book called The Five Hour Workday. And he was he pointed out one of the things I loved in that I took away was, you know, he pointed out that the five day workweek was something we invented. And it wasn’t that long ago, I think it was the thirties or forties that through an act of legislation, we started to have a 40 hour workweek. And Saturday, Sunday weren’t part of the traditional workweek and things like that. But again, pointing out like we made this up and we made it up in a very different time, and maybe what it’s called for now is not that but something new. And I think it’s the case that often in retrospect, things look obvious. But looking forward, you know, things are murky or uncertain. Right. So that’s one thing, is this idea of like a five hour workday is pretty interesting concept. And he talks about how he applied it in his company that sells surfboards and beach gear and things like that. And that’s a company of one. But the other idea that comes up when I hear you talking about this is with Tony Shea, who, you know, founded Zappos and grew it and so forth, and went past that untimely death recently. But that guy, I didn’t know him personally, but reading his book, Delivering Happiness, and, you know, he was an interesting thinker where I understand it, he experimented with a flat organization model. And I think there’s probably something there in this more human approach of, you know, recognizing that we’re not all.

Dean Miles [00:06:12] Like.

Brilliant Miller [00:06:13] Command and control top down.

Dean Miles [00:06:15] Right?

Brilliant Miller [00:06:15] We want to tell you kind of thing. That’s not the world we live in. I think less and less of it is becoming.

Dean Miles [00:06:21] That is true, right? I’ll share a couple of things that I want to hear what you’re been ingesting. I went to a couple of colleagues and a couple of clients around this. You and I both heard Alan Mulally speak in Nashville. So the former CEO of Ford, former CEO of Boeing, and he has this what they call the worked together management system, which is why I’ve been thinking about systems with this sidekick, kind of an idea of a leadership style of love them up, love them up, he says. And so when I went to my friend group, my colleagues and peers and clients, what do you think about this? And one of them said, he’s like, Dean, I got spreadsheets, I got meetings, I got budgets. I do not have the bandwidth, the worry about feelings when there’s bottom lines to consider. This other person said, I think a bit of fear, uncertainty and competition never hurt anybody and survival of the fittest. It’s not survival of the friendliest. Wow. And I. I can see how these men and women get there because you can try to bring in the human emotion side. But right now, the systems are designed to beat that out of you.

Brilliant Miller [00:07:34] Yeah, for sure. Remind me to never work for either of those people.

Dean Miles [00:07:39] No, but I’ll tell you.

Brilliant Miller [00:07:40] We have we have an employee of our family business, and we just honored her a couple of weeks ago with a luncheon because she celebrated her 40th anniversary with our company. Wow. And I. I interviewed her a few years ago when I wrote a book about my dad. And she shared with me that my dad took a personal interest in her understanding, you know, her family, what their hobbies were, would stop and talk not every day or whatever. Right. Because there is that of getting things done, but also caring about other people and interacting with them in a way that they feel that. But she told me that when I interviewed her and when I would talk to her about just how she knew, you know, and there’s that saying, right, People don’t care how much, you know, until they know how much you care. And it’s kind of a cheesy way to say it.

Dean Miles [00:08:24] But.

Brilliant Miller [00:08:25] It’s different. And we feel I think we all feel that when and who knows how much of it is an imagination, but when you feel someone cares about you is different.

Dean Miles [00:08:35] Right. It is different. DuPont has done some research on this and ultimately how it impacts the PNL. Is that you get access to discretionary efforts.

Brilliant Miller [00:08:48] Hmm.

Dean Miles [00:08:50] To most of us, I’m guilty of this. I mean, I can swing in on a Monday morning with not much prep for preparation and do a better than most, you know. And then Friday. Then comes Friday. What would happen if I picked the right few things and brought discretionary effort to it? And their research says you can take any given KPI, and you could swing it 30 to 40% with discretionary effort. Wow. Those are. I mean. You guys run a big business. Take any of those key categories and swing it 30 to 40% with no additional capital or investment.

Brilliant Miller [00:09:30] Yeah, it’s amazing. And then to me, and this is maybe the metaphysical part of me and so forth goes, yeah. And how do you keep that authentic and not a strategy? Right, right. Because what’s that saying. Like if, if you can. Oh, what’s that saying. If you can fake it right, then you’ve got it made. What’s that. Oh, what’s that famous saying.

Dean Miles [00:09:54] I don’t honestly fake it to make it. I think it’s what you’re saying.

Brilliant Miller [00:09:58] It’s like if you can fake sincerity. Oh, my gosh. I can’t believe I don’t remember this right now, but it’s like your fake authenticity and then you’ve got it made or something. But how do we know? Like, how do you do this? Not because that’s the challenge for me, this is the right thing to do because caring about and caring about the stakeholders, not just the customers or employees or even your vendors, but the community and the environment. Right? Because that’s the thing to do, not because it’s better for the bottom line or because then your retention goes up or your engagement is higher. You have access to discretionary effort.

Dean Miles [00:10:32] Like that because you probably can’t you probably can’t carry it. So, I apologize for those roasting. At the same time. I don’t apologize. MARTIN So, Brendan, I got invited to this this group, this gathering of some of the top 100 thought leaders and coaches and influencers on the planet and part of the entertainment. They brought in some Broadway singers like the also the Best and like one was the guy who plays Aladdin in both Broadway and in London. And he talks about when you sing the same song eight times a week. The audience who’s watching it for the first time, maybe even the third time, has their initial filter is. Do I believe you? Or do I not believe? I do. I believe that you’re really fulfilling who this character is. Yep. And I know as employees, because I’ve been an employee. I’m looking for him. I’m being manipulated or not. Is this. Do I believe that you’re doing this because the right thing? Or are you doing this because you’re trying to want to?

Brilliant Miller [00:11:41] You want something from me?

Dean Miles [00:11:42] That’s exactly right. Now, why is this important topic? Because we’re coaching these men and women that are trying to make these decisions because they have no responsibility. And so, what an amazing opportunity to coach them to do the right thing. Because it’s the right thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:12:03] And I do think I could go along on this, and I won’t. But I did Google that quote. It was attributed to the comedian George Burns sincerity. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made. That’s what.

Dean Miles [00:12:16] I thought. Let’s get.

Brilliant Miller [00:12:19] Well, let me tell you.

Dean Miles [00:12:19] What are you reading?

Brilliant Miller [00:12:20] I’ll tell you a couple of things. So, this is a book, Desert Solitaire by Edward Abbey. This is a book that is on my list of 100 books to read before I die. And when we were in Nashville together and I was walking to and from the event we attended, I passed a little free library. Bless whoever started the little free library. And this book was in there. No way. Okay, I’ll pick it up. I’ll start to read it. And I think it’s a really beautiful it’s a really beautiful account of Edward Abbey’s time working as a park ranger in Arches National Park. And just this was years and years ago. I actually don’t know right when this was set, but it might have been the sixties. So, it was. Copyright 1968. So, this must have been in the sixties. But I’m learning a lot and it’s kind of its kind of a modern, modern day meditation where he goes out into the wilderness to live, but also to work and what he witnesses and experiences. And it’s he’s a poet and I’m learning a lot of new words. There’s a lot of words in here. I didn’t know Dan used to.

Dean Miles [00:13:28] Oh, course.

Brilliant Miller [00:13:30] De Missoni. Like, I don’t know these words. I hope that’s kind of fun. But I’ll tell you one thing. As I said, he paints with words, very beautiful descriptions of the sky and the landscape and the wildlife. And here’s the thing. He keeps what he has he’s living out in a little trailer and it’s cold and a rattlesnake takes up residence right under his trailer. And he doesn’t like that because he’ll go out and stand on the backside, of course, on the ground barefoot. And he finds later a bull snake or a gopher snake. And I didn’t know this, but those will drive away rattlesnakes. So, he keeps this bull snake as a pet in the trailer with him, which is convenient because it eats the mice that are there and then it drives away the rattlesnake. And so, he’ll carry it with him in the day. And his shirt, of course, it likes his warmth. And then it’s a fun trick when he meets with the people who’ve come to the visitors of the park. And it’s just it’s fun. So I often think that art or writing is kind of a life acceleration device, right? We get to learn from other people’s experience. And I’m enjoying the beauty and the learning from Edward Abbey.

Dean Miles [00:14:39] That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I got to think about what’s my metaphorical snake. Mm. I don’t have an answer yet.

Brilliant Miller [00:14:52] I was going to let you think then.

Dean Miles [00:14:53] I know. Like, it was a long pause. Brilliant speech.

Brilliant Miller [00:14:57] Okay, so let’s move on. I have other things. Of course, we’re reading and watching, but let’s move on to a discussion of something that.

Dean Miles [00:15:05] Might help.

Brilliant Miller [00:15:06] Us to live a good life or maybe a more complete life or a happier, more fulfilling life. Here’s what I want to explore with you. It’s related to the topic of time. Right. And it’s a quote. So I want to start this off The idea here is a quotation from Werner Erhard, one of my favorite thinkers, and he says he asserts, so this is there’s a pretty. Powerful statement. I think he’s making a strong assertion. Werner says you need to master time to have any mastery in the world. People who are at the effect of time. People who can’t create time. People who can’t manage time. People who can’t move time around. People who can’t handle time. People who are overwhelmed by time have no mastery and no basis for mastery.

Dean Miles [00:15:58] I’m like, Wow.

Brilliant Miller [00:16:00] And when I think of time, I think of I don’t know that Einstein said this right, because everything’s been attributed to Einstein or Buddha or Lincoln. I’m quote Einstein. And then I’m going to put persistence and here’s what I’ve. For those of us who believe in physics, the distinction between past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion. So this idea that time is an illusion somewhat, you know, if Einstein is saying this. I don’t know that he did, but I think about the persistence of time. Time versus an illusion. So this idea that to have mastery and this is the paradigm shift for me also that goes right along with these is when I teach my life skills, practices, curriculum, invite people to share with me what’s their understanding of the purpose of time, right? Which we don’t necessarily think about. Like what’s the purpose of water? What’s the purpose of oxygen? We just will just it’s just a thing. But if there was a purpose and I’ll ask you this then, and I certainly don’t know which is part of why I ask. I love to have the conversation. Right. But what say you is the purpose of time?

Dean Miles [00:17:15] Gosh, so many things come to mind. I think it’s is for connection. And I think how that shows up in different cultures. Here in the U.S. The purpose of time is when I need it most is when do I may have the connection with you? BRYANT And that time allows for when will when will we connect? Yeah. When I go to Uganda in Entebbe. Time is different there. It’s an approximation. But what’s. But they prefer not. So this is my perspective on if I’m right or not. But here’s what they tell me. They’ll get to me when they can get to me. If they’re sooner or later, it’s because they’re connecting with someone else. And then when they get to me, there’s no rush. They’re not. And they’re not in a hurry for that to end. Right. Is this a general when it’s over, it’s over. And then they’ll go to the next thing. But the first time they were picking me up at the hotel, I mean, I’m there 15 minutes early is on time, right? I’m standing out there baking in the sun and my suit and tie waiting, waiting, waiting. 2 hours later. My driver shows up, I’m losing my mind. And he’s like, What’s the problem? I was honoring the person I was with, and now I honor you. Now that I’m with you. So for me, for me, it’s an attempt of order and structure for sure.

Brilliant Miller [00:19:09] And that’s another thing as I researched through the, you know, Google. Yeah that Einstein also said time is what time? The purpose of time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.

Dean Miles [00:19:25] Like, oh that’s like that.

Brilliant Miller [00:19:27] Right. But what you’re saying about connection, I actually really like that and I’ve had the thought that time it, it does allow us to plot things right. Because we can agree we’ll meet in this place. So there’s, there’s, there’s space and there’s time and we could say we’ll meet at this place at this time. And part of what I’ve really been intrigued by is I’ve learned a little bit about other cultures is, yeah, not just the way they use time or think about time, but the way they understand. It seems to be very different. I interviewed a gentleman named Tyson Younger Porter, who’s an Aboriginal Aborigine, and he said that in his culture in Australia that there traditionally is mother, there’s grandmother. Mother, daughter. And by the time it gets to the daughter, they’ll actually call her grandmother and that they see time as a circle. And I’m like, Isn’t that strange that a grandmother would actually call her granddaughter grandmother? And in this way, this time has this internal cycle. So you know this. And then as I’ve learned also about if you do work with people and I’m not sure where this fits in, you know, the kind of modalities and so forth, but sometimes I don’t know if any of the coaching you do ever involves inviting people to think about a timeline. It’s actually very wise to go back in time to a moment or to envision this. And I’ve been interested to learn that people, not everyone, visualizes time the same way, right? Where some people will see it as stretching behind them into the future. Other people will see it left or right like they read. Some people evidently will see it like a you coming toward them and then back away from them. So and as I’ve heard, this is a work of like NLP in sub modalities, like how we picture and represent reality. So what’s my point in all this is that there’s a lots of ways to think about time that I think we’re often not present to. We just, oh, it’s 10:00 in a meeting starting or my kids are up past bedtime did it. And we don’t even necessarily recognize there’s other ways to think about or use time. So where I want to go with this and exploring the principle of living a good life with time and what are use these very particular words about not being at the effect of writing, said people who are at the effect of time. Right people to whom time happens and there’s this sense of overwhelm, times, scarcity, it’s never enough to be rushing. You’re anxious. Right. And that I think that’s normal. We all experience something I do when I golf and there’s people behind me and I don’t want to be the jerk holding them up, right? So we all have our versions of greatness. And one of the things that I’ll invite people to consider is that perhaps a purpose of time is to help you maximize your enjoyment of life. Mike. But what do I mean? Right. And that’s then choosing because you use the word structure.

Dean Miles [00:22:23] Right?

Brilliant Miller [00:22:24] Then if you get that, you are the one who chooses how to use your time, which not everyone agrees with. But you say what? Where are you going to be like? You’re going to be somewhere unless you’re dead or you’ve found a way to leave the planet on the morning, you’re going to be somewhere.

Dean Miles [00:22:39] All right?

Brilliant Miller [00:22:39] And you going to be doing something. And if you get right down to it, you’re going to be the one who chose that. Place and that thing that you’re doing or all the things you’re not doing, right. So then if you say that principal is in effect all the time. Right. Like you recently moved, I don’t know if this is like public knowledge to be discussed.

Dean Miles [00:23:02] No, it’s. Yeah, it’s all good.

Brilliant Miller [00:23:04] But you moved from Houston to Florida?

Dean Miles [00:23:07] Yep. Yep.

Brilliant Miller [00:23:08] So you made that choice. And you. You’re living a different life, and you’re going to be doing different things by virtue of the fact that you’re in a different place.

Dean Miles [00:23:17] And a different time zone.

Brilliant Miller [00:23:18] And a different time zone. Which.

Dean Miles [00:23:21] Yeah. Which is Eastern Time zone. Is so perfect for me. As opposed to I used to live in Mountain Time Zone. I can wake up. 530, 6:00. Most of my clients are Central Mountain, a few West Coast. Which means I can. Wake up. Gently. Hmm. Can go workout, can cool down. Can sit outside, watch the sunrise for some time with the kids, and still have 45 minutes till 9:00. Which is 8:00 Central, which is 7:00 Mountain, which is 6:00 West. I’m ready to go. My clients are just waking up. And I go to bed early and it is perfect. Perfect. This time zone is perfect for my health.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:21] Yeah. And you, you maybe. Maybe you stumbled into that. I don’t know if that was a driver in your decision to move.

Dean Miles [00:24:28] It was. It was part of. Yeah. Because we spent some time out here and then made that discovery and it was we want to go back to that time zone.

Brilliant Miller [00:24:37] Yeah. And, and so this idea like you’re, I think your life is, is a great example of like recognize the reality that you, you have a lot of choice and you’re exercising that choice in ways that suit you and in the same way that that is available to everyone. Right. Whether we believe it or not or whether we’re willing to or not. And so when we recognize that so much of health and happiness. Is. A combination of living in the present moment, but also having a compelling future into which we’re living right and recognizing that those things into which we’re living. Yes, there are some things that we ultimately don’t control. Like there’s going to be a new president of the United States elected next year. Right. There’s going to be tax day is going to come do right and someday. Right. These things may not the United States may not exist. I mean, ancient Rome doesn’t exist like all this, but in the lives, we’re living it something that’s going to be true. And then there’s things that we get to create that we can take, vacations that we can start, companies that we can, you know, plan for children’s weddings or our own retirement. And a lot of this. And when we look at our timeline and we put things on there, whether it’s tomorrow, next week, next month, next year that are fulfilling, that are challenging, that are fun in that way. TIME One way to think of time again, to repeat, is that it’s there to help us maximize our enjoyment of life if we’re willing to take on that responsibility.

Dean Miles [00:26:06] Yes, it gives clarity for decision making. I can’t think of his name, but he wrote he has a website called Wait, But why.

Brilliant Miller [00:26:16] Zimmerman.

Dean Miles [00:26:17] That? And he has these I mean, you can make your own, but you can buy these grids of just a lifetime. So, each square is a decade now. Which means most of us have nine squares. Well, five of those for me are already filled in. Mm hmm. So how do I want to spend the next one? Right. And you can break these boxes in two verse 52 weeks for the year. And so, we’re well over half those. And so, the physical picking out the writing utensil and scratching out the square. It’s gone. Yeah. And here’s the next one. So, what do you want to do? How do you want to use it? Who do you want to do it with? How do you want to live out your heart and your smarts and your guts? And what luck will you find? It’s fascinating to me.

Brilliant Miller [00:27:15] Absolutely. And I look at this, and for me, it’s a combination of both, like events and experiences. So, you look ahead and you’ll say, do you want to take the kids to Tokyo or to Disneyland or go straight and learn to scuba in the Bahamas. So, there’s like this maybe once in a lifetime kind of things. But then there’s also the component. That’s what is the. And then this will change, of course, over time. But what’s the rhythm with which you want to live? Does your morning involve like you just described? I didn’t hear coffee.

Dean Miles [00:27:42] But there was coffee. Don’t say it. But yes, it’s there.

Brilliant Miller [00:27:47] Work out watching sunrises, this kind of thing. But like. And are we really taking the responsibility for not just checking those boxes as they pass those weeks as they passed, but of looking to the future with some kind of joyous anticipation while living fully in the present as best we can, and that knowing that we have this this combination of like wonderful, wonderful moments that are yet to come and then a wonderful routine and a rhythm that we get to live. And it sounds easy and I don’t think and although we can get clear, if we sit down and we make time for it in bits and pieces and we can make changes any day for sure. But it’s a process even to discover that, to architect it, to implement it. Right. But are we doing that or are we just living at the effect of time, as Werner says.

Dean Miles [00:28:33] Yeah, yeah. And stressed out and etc.. My coach that I had back in 2007 is who really started me on this idea and this path. I’m just saying things are important to me and we’ve talked in previous podcasts of our adventure and advocacy. But there was also an aspect of what I was desiring is I wanted the opportunities throughout the day to linger. So not loiter, right? You go outside the 7-Eleven, you loiter, they have a sign. It’s frowned upon. They’ll call the police. I know firsthand experience. But to linger. To not be in a hurry. Yeah. I love that too. It allows me, like we did in Nashville, I got to go early. I want a day early and I stayed a day over. I got to linger beautiful in the richness that comes from that. But there’s sacrifices. Of things I had to say yes to and things I had to say no to, to enjoy that. But that’s important to me. That’s how I wanted to spend that square right on my grid.

Brilliant Miller [00:29:36] Absolutely. And part of what this then opens up for me as well, like the thoughts.

Dean Miles [00:29:40] That I.

Brilliant Miller [00:29:41] Hear you say that is I don’t think that any of us will ever feel happy or satisfied or fulfilled.

Dean Miles [00:29:47] If.

Brilliant Miller [00:29:48] We don’t align our time with what we truly value. It doesn’t matter. Like it’s not about accomplishing more. If that isn’t in alignment with what truly matters. I don’t think and you’ve and yes, there are tradeoffs and so forth. Right.

Dean Miles [00:30:07] So and I like that. Brilliant. And some say and there’s research and attempted science behind this stuff from the human experience, you could actually slow down time, which I find fascinating. And it tends to be all and reflective, meditated type moments. Though I want you slow time down.

Brilliant Miller [00:30:26] You’re going to just ask any high school trigonometry.

Dean Miles [00:30:29] Student Yeah, I know that’s all an adventure. But yes, it will. Certainly an hour of your life. Yes. Yeah. And so and so that’s important. And if I ever take this back, it’s better living. But it also it makes you a better coach because these topics are pressing on the leaders that we have access to today. Yeah. I think it’s hard to coach if you’re not if you’re not living it yourself, if you’re not trying to find your own level of discipline around it.

Brilliant Miller [00:31:04] Absolutely. And I’m fond of the saying that anything that helps you be a better version of yourself will help you be a better coach, will help you be a better go, help you be a better parent. So this is this is the sort of good living. And so I hope that this has stimulated something for people listening. And it’s a reminder to myself to really be deliberate with those 668 hours in a week. I mean, we can know that they’re going to pass. We can know that they’re finite. But are we are we at the effective time or are we mastering time and are we using it in a way that are we relating to time in an empowering way that helps us live the life we want to live, be the person we want to be, make the contribution we want to make? Because at some deep level, it’s a I do believe it’s choice. It is a choice. I mean, it’s maybe a perspective shift. It’s a belief.

Dean Miles [00:31:55] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:31:56] Now, for sure. It’s a choice.

Dean Miles [00:31:59] Yeah, I think a place to begin with this to make a life decision. Maybe more than a lot of us can handle it. Maybe even to make a decision for the years too difficult to handle, but to maybe just start with. In the morning. What would I what I’d like to do my mornings or maybe just pick a day. So this next week I want to pick one day where I really will be mindful and see what I learn about my time. It start right. Start with what you have. Start with the choices that you can really take given your circumstances. Start there. Yeah. Because, I mean, you’ll get lost and overwhelmed and will probably fail. A lot. But start now.

Brilliant Miller [00:32:47] I love it. Okay, Dean, let’s move on to a skill that can help us to be a more effective coach. A skill that can help us be a great coach. I want to talk with you. I want to explore the skill of bottom line.

Dean Miles [00:33:02] Mm hmm.

Brilliant Miller [00:33:03] And as I do, I want to say this. This I think this works much better with our coaching clients than probably with our spouses or significant life partners.

Dean Miles [00:33:14] Yes. Read the fine print here.

Brilliant Miller [00:33:16] Even though you might want. You might find yourself wanting to apply this. But here’s. Here’s the way I think of this skill. Bottom line. This is one where and this is one where you’re hearing your client. You’re listening to them. Right. And I also like to say that a coaching conversation now coaching relationship can be a friendship, I believe. But a coaching conversation is not a conversation with a friend. Meaning, this is you’re not just a sympathetic ear, right? You’re there to help this client realize a possibility or become something or. Right. And in that way, just listening to this, sometimes sad stories is not serving your client.

Dean Miles [00:34:04] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:34:05] Right. And I interviewed someone who wrote a book called Time and How to Spend It. And I love what he said, and I’m going to find his name because I’m forgetting it in this moment. I apologize. It’s time and how to spend it. The Seven Rules for a Richer, Happier Days. James Wollman And I love in his book he says, Look, there are only two stories we live. There are only two stories we tell as human beings. We tell how we got in the hole we’re in or how we got out of the hole we used to be at.

Dean Miles [00:34:38] Wow, that’s good.

Brilliant Miller [00:34:39] That’s good, right? And so when you’re hearing your client relate again how they got in the hole they’re in. You’re not helping them. Right. They have friends. They’re probably doing that with their friends or whoever will listen to people at the bar or whatever. So this is where bottom lining can come in. But again, I think this is much easier when you’re coming from a place of love and service and acknowledging you’re actually not serving your client when you’re just listening to them. Again, this skill of bottom lining, which often is coupled with rapport, it’s also often coupled well with asking permission. Right. But looking for opportunities to get to the real issue with the client. Right. And I love these questions about like, what’s the real issue for you here? What’s the real issue here? Or if you if you’ve explained this, some people get it right off, right. It’s not that complicated. But if you say, hey, bottom line this for me, just take. Cut to the chase. Right. What’s that famous saying? Give me the baby, not the delivery.

Dean Miles [00:35:45] Yes, Yes.

Brilliant Miller [00:35:46] But if you have the kind of relationship with the client where you can say something that directly or maybe humorously, then great. And by the way, you save those 5 minutes, 3 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes of.

Dean Miles [00:35:59] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:36:00] Conversation, and then you get to where you can create something. Right. Not just rehashing something. Re. What’s that word? Ruminating on something.

Dean Miles [00:36:09] Yes. Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:36:10] Right. And when we get that coaching, I think is often most effective, maybe always, most, not always, but often most effective when it’s future focused and when it’s creative. And now you’re creating something new. And bottom line, he can help us get there and the client might feel a little bit uncomfortable. They might feel pushed. But guess what? If they were capable of doing that, that themselves, they probably wouldn’t have called you in the first place. They would.

Dean Miles [00:36:34] Have said, Well said, bring it. I find that these unnatural conversation. Skills. Do yourself a favor and design it at the forefront of the relationship. Right. And so this is on a checklist that we have, a Bridgepoint that we go over with the clients of. Go ahead and give me permission now, because I’m probably most likely going to do this sooner than you would expect. I’m going to interrupt you or I’m going to pause you or I’m just going to take I’m a hijacker and go a completely different direction. Yeah. So just hang with me. And so by doing that, it helps. There are those that. It takes a while because then they get upset, you know? Dean, let me finish. This is important to me. I’ve had that said, and sometimes I’ll yield. Yeah. Great. Finish. But then where I bring immediacy to it is I’ll say, All right, let’s pause the story. What was that like? What was that like? You asking me? Dean? Let me finish this. How does that show up for you? Where else? Where else do you feel like you need to do this as you’re leading your organization? And it really becomes interesting to look for those immediacy moments in the long story. Well, let me give you some feedback. When you tell the longest story, here’s what it felt like for me. Do you want others to feel that same way? Mm hmm. It really becomes interesting.

Brilliant Miller [00:38:12] Yeah. And one of the things I think about, again, you know, for me, coaching relationships and coaching conversations. So the context of the engagement and then the context for each.

Dean Miles [00:38:25] Call.

Brilliant Miller [00:38:26] Is what do you want? What do you want to produce? What’s the result? You want to focus on what goes on. Right? And what I find is when people are stuck in this story mode and yeah, there’s a time and a place for a story and people want to be heard and sometimes they need to vendor process. I totally acknowledge that. But that’s also why therapists exist. I think right now you can do some of that for sure, but I think it’s a different function by and large. And when someone is telling a story, not only are they not creating something, they’re not even focused on what they want. Usually they’re focused at best on what they don’t want.

Dean Miles [00:39:00] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:39:00] So by helping re-orient them, redirect you saying, well, what do you want? And in asking the question sometimes just in the question, as we know, people will get clarity. But then you begin a new thread that that can be productive or can lead to a new possibility.

Dean Miles [00:39:16] It’s a really good word, our friend Michael Bungay Steiner says. Average coaching. The below average coaching is focused on helping the client sort things out. As an excite me. Great coaching takes them into something completely new. Right. Right. Creating something, something that’s so forward. It’s beyond what they ever even dreamed was possible. It’s when my trainer at the gym scares me. So D how many pushups do you want to do? And the warm up? I’ll do 20. Would you do 500? He says, Oh, no, not doing Indy 500. How about to do 100? Well, he just took me from 20 to 100 by projecting something absurd. Like 500.

Brilliant Miller [00:40:11] We need to get that guy to negotiate like M.A..

Dean Miles [00:40:17] But a great coach will do that. Just that shock and awe will take whatever you think you can do and will stretch you to a point that you might not have the guts to go do on your own.

Brilliant Miller [00:40:28] Yeah, absolutely. So, Dean, here in the last part of our conversation today to help those listening and watching and us, of course, to earn recognition of money for the coaching we’re doing. I want to explore with you an idea that you and I have talked about when you attend a conference. When you watch your TED talk, you listen to a podcast, when you read a book, when you’re being the info vortex that we started. You have some, I thought, really thought provoking ideas, some questions you ask yourself, tell me. And those listening and watching. Tell me about that.

Dean Miles [00:41:05] Yeah, Thanks, Bruce. And I would put it under the umbrella of a little bit of what I call. So what now? What? Is too easy because information is so easily accessible. Today is just short term memory. I’ll have the moment. I’ll write it down like I did today. This idea of there’s two stories, how I got in the hole and how I got out of the hole. Love that. If I if I didn’t bring it up again, I’ll forget it.

Brilliant Miller [00:41:36] Yeah.

Dean Miles [00:41:37] It’s such a bad thing. So now I go into origin. So what now what? And I try to listen with two different filters. One is what does this mean to me? And then second, what will this me mean for a current client or a future client? Hmm. So it is how do how can I use it to add value to myself and how I’m trying to run a business here? How can this also add value to our company and to our clients? So when I hear things like the two stories, I’ve got a couple clients that immediately came on my mind, but also I think I can use this as I’m pitching new business of, Hey, a bridge point. We’re really good at helping you identify your two stories, how you got in and how you got out. My mind’s already kind of going to How do I make that into my infomercial? Yeah, that’s good business. And I think without that, the Charlotte Mason is as the great educator back in the 1800s, and she made some observations of how do you go from information and data to knowledge and you have to have an oral narrative or written narrative or a pictorial doodle narrative. And when you do that, it goes from short term memory to long term memory. Yeah, I’ve got to write it down. That’s my or it’s the narrative and then I’ve got to talk it out loud. So when I hear good stuff, like I’m going to do it tonight at dinner, I want to make sure I bring this up at dinner. Hey, there’s two stories. And the more I tell that, the more likely I’m going to remember it. And I can then incorporate it into a coaching session. So the workshop, the conference we did in Nashville, there were several things that Alan Mulally said and some things that Jim said, the former leader of the World Bank. And I’m listening. What those what those? Ears nose filters of how can I go make money with this. MH. It helps me as I listen to a different otherwise my mind drifts that think this is boring or that’s dumb or Yeah, I can get cynical really, really quick.

Brilliant Miller [00:43:44] Yeah, for sure. You know, this this makes me think of something that I’ve heard Tony Robbins teach from a stage where he’ll say at every seminar of his I’ve ever attended, he’ll say, I want you to learn this like you’re going to teach it when you get home. I want you to. And that’s a different frame. If you’re turning with the intent to teach, it’s different. Right. And similarly and he said this and I recognize it in myself as well. He said, When I’m reading, I’m thinking, how can I share this with others? How can I use this to help others? Like, help bless the lives of others. Right. And that’s different. And just having that as a context, when we go to a seminar or we watch a TED talk or listen to a podcast, I think that’s super valuable. And as the first stage, I think that’s key. And then immediately there comes this like you’re pointing out, Well, yeah, knowledge, information. It’s in a way, it’s just a commodity.

Dean Miles [00:44:53] Right.

Brilliant Miller [00:44:53] And if, if that was all people needed. What’s that famous saying? We’d all have six pack abs and we’d all be billionaires and have pride if knowledge was all we needed because we have an internet connection or we have a library card or whatever. But then it’s a way of organizing and of accessing it, of using it. Right. And that’s part of this idea that coaches commonplace book as we’ve talked a commonplace is a place to store and organize and later use knowledge in a modern day version. I don’t know if you’ve come across this gentleman’s work I think it’s pretty cool is a guy named Tiago Forte and he’s written a book and he’s got a whole program called Building a Second Brain, and it’s all about this is technology agnostic. So this isn’t, hey, you need Evernote or you need notion or whatever. It’s like what works for you Use the tools that work for you. And then he has this whole system that helps us to think about how to organize and use the information once we’ve collected it. So especially you deal with how much of a learner and squirrel you are.

Dean Miles [00:45:57] Is exactly right. I want I take it really serious and I think people are surprised by it. I didn’t I, I got certified in an assessment. I don’t want to mention the name on this just for obvious reasons. But I took this assessment. I got certified in this assessment one of the best assessments I’ve ever seen. Brilliant. Uh huh. The model. Because once you get certified on it, you can use it. Hmm. But I don’t use the assessment. I use the model. And I coach to this model. If I to tell you what is called. But if you knew what it was, you can Google it in the models all over the place. I make about a half million dollars off that model this year. Wow. And I mentioned it to the person who created it. Uh huh. And she spun around and she’s like, What? Wow. And she’s like, she goes, You don’t use the assessments. And I’m like, I don’t because that’s not where the value is, the values in the model. And when I took Europe, I got certified. You gave me the model and said, use it. And I do. Wow.

Brilliant Miller [00:47:12] Yeah, that that’s awesome. And to me, that speaks to the you know with life there’s the your mileage may vary and very few things truly are one size fits all and car preferences and things like that. So again take what works leave the rest you know kind of thing.

Dean Miles [00:47:30] That’s exactly right.

Brilliant Miller [00:47:32] But this idea of. So what now? What? Yeah, that’s great. Right? And I’ve heard it said that the end of knowledge is action. So it’s like we say like knowledge is knowledge is power, but knowledge is only potential power. And until we apply it right, and it’s what’s that that whole continuum of like data or info knowledge, wisdom. Yes, these are different things in how we apply them and so forth. Then if we don’t have a method, if we don’t have the framework to look at it that way as we experience that or we or we collect it or whatever, and then how we store it and then how we go forward and use it.

Dean Miles [00:48:11] Yeah, the filter is become interesting. So as you and I have gotten to know Mark Reiter, he was the editor and the co-writer for a lot for Marshall Goldsmith’s books. He’s always listening for titles.

Brilliant Miller [00:48:25] Yeah, and stories and stories.

Dean Miles [00:48:30] I think good coaches, great coaches are doing the same thing with some of these with content. I heard someone say just the other day the difference between a meeting and conversations. They didn’t say it that clearly, but I heard a distinction of how what are the elements to make a meeting efficient? And one thing they can’t. Doesn’t really happen in a meeting to meet these efficiency goals is we don’t have conversations. And so for no religion to differentiate between when are we having a meeting and when are we having a conversation, because efficiency of conversations is around connection. It’s around thoughtfulness. And I was like, I can sell that. Yeah. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:49:19] Absolutely.

Dean Miles [00:49:20] And we pitched it this week and I think we’re going to I think we’re going to close a contract. Right. That’s crazy to me. But that’s the filter that I’ve learned from these great coaches is how they listen for trends. So liminal stages is a is a trend that a lot of us are on. We heard it. We’re like, Ooh, there’s something there and we’re building curriculum around it. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:49:48] Yeah, absolutely. Well, then I heard Tony Robbins use the term profound knowledge where as I understand how he uses that term is any idea, any skill, any practice, any principle that you can use immediately to change the quality of your life? Yeah. And again, just having that distinction for something can help us to identify it or to remember it or whatever. And that’s what I think I that I think I go through life looking for profound knowledge. Like the moment you understand it, you can apply it.

Dean Miles [00:50:25] It’s a really good. So really good. Yeah.

Brilliant Miller [00:50:29] Well, then here at the end of our conversation, as we wrap up, what invitation or request or command would you like to extend to our audience here?

Dean Miles [00:50:44] Well, I like what you said about some 5 minutes ago. You know, this will help others or help those who are listening that are watching. And it’ll help us. Here’s were some things that you and I have talked about have helped me from the creative brief to trying new things. We talked about newsletters. I had some on our on our team in our department. Go search one more time. And DeanMiles.com was actually available, but it hasn’t been available for like 20 some years.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:10] I forgot to renew it.

Dean Miles [00:51:12] Saying it. Yeah, somebody did. And I was the Dean Myles out there. It is like crap. But so I got it. So if you go to DeanMiles.com, it’s just a landing page for our newsletter for my our, my newsletter is called the Unlocker. And it’s just a resource for unlocking leadership potential. And just how do you have success, success that sustained. So, it’s not just a blip. Yeah, that’s easier to do. But how do you do that and maintain and actually have some momentum growth so DeanMiles.com will take you there.

Brilliant Miller [00:51:48] Awesome. Okay, well then, I have enjoyed our conversation, as I often do. And whether it’s on a golf course or a coach’s community call or hear on a podcast. So, thank you again for making time. Again. To me, further evidence that the purpose of time is in fact to maximize our enjoyment of life. Thank you for helping me validate my own theories.

Dean Miles [00:52:13] Yeah. Thanks for the invitation.

Brilliant Miller [00:52:15] Yeah. All right. So again, to everybody listening, I hope that you have heard something. You’ve learned something. You’ve seen something for yourself that can help you live a good life and help you to be a great coach and can help you to earn recognition, money, or to be and do and have whatever you want to do and be and have. So, with that, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. Until next time, take good care. We’ll see you later.